Meeting minutes
Review agenda and next meeting dates
https://
Matt_King: Requests for changes to agenda?
Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll stick with the agenda as published
Matt_King: Next Community Group Meeting: Wednesday February 26
Matt_King: Next AT Driver Subgroup meeting: Monday March 10
Current status
Matt_King: We're getting closer to mapping out a plan for the next several months
Matt_King: The single biggest change to the overall status in the last week is that we have three updates in "candidate review"
Matt_King: The "link" test plans 2 and 3 are now pushed to "candidate review", and we expect a speedy approval on those
Matt_King: We also got an update on the "action menu buttons"--all three of those test plans (the action menu buttons and the navigation menu button--those are all updated with the new version of the test plan where we fixed the issue with the "must" requirement for the "collapsed". We discussed that a few weeks ago. We changed the priority of the assertion, and the system did what it was designed to do. No testing needed to be repeated
Matt_King: We still have six issues on "action menu button", all from Apple
Matt_King" We're left with two plans (the two "radio" plans) in "Draft review:
Matt_King: After that will be the "media seek slider"
Matt_King: We're chipping away at things thanks to everybody's hard work!
Disclosure nav menu testing
github: w3c/
Matt_King: I have version 18.3 and 15.3.1. I only ran test 9 (but test 9 and 11 were very similar)
Matt_King: I think Joe_Humbert verified that he had the latest versions
<Joe_Humbert> i do
mmoss: I was also on OS 15.3 and Safari 18.3
<Joe_Humbert> this in another meeting
mmoss: And I reset all my settings
<Joe_Humbert> still in*
Matt_King: So IsaDC, myself, and Joe_Humbert all definitely have the same versions and are all getting the same results
Matt_King: I hate to just erase mmoss's experience, though!
mmoss: I have no objection to that though, in the interest of consistency
mmoss: I would feel weird about updating my results to match, though
Matt_King: Me, too
Matt_King: I'm wondering what could create a difference like this...
mmoss: There are three conflicts. The last test--test 14--is a different class of conflict. The first two seem specific to the tab key--it's just not doing what it's supposed to do
Matt_King: I'm wondering, if we were to compare our keyboard settings...
Matt_King: the accessibility setting for "full keyboard access"...
mmoss: I have that turned off
Matt_King: I have that off. It's even dimmed--I can't turn it on, though I don't know why
<Joe_Humbert> turned off for me
IsaDC: Me, too
mmoss: You can't turn it on while VoiceOver is running. That's why it's dimmed for you, Matt_King
Matt_King: My "keyboard navigation" switch is on
mmoss: So is mine
Matt_King: I think that one is supposed to get automatically turned on when you turn on VoiceOver, normally, unless you turn it off...
Matt_King: Is there a setting related to "tab" in Safari?
<Joe_Humbert> yes
mfairchild: I think it still has that
<Joe_Humbert> i just checked
mfairchild: It's under "advanced" in the accessibility section. It's called "press tab to highlight each item on the page"
mmoss: I do not have that turned on
<Joe_Humbert> i have that turned on
dean: You have to have that on, and it's off by default
mmoss: I'm going to toggle it "on" and run through the test real quick
Matt_King: Yeah, maybe that's the problem here. That can be our action plan
mmoss: I will finish running through the conflicts that I have, but at a glance, the first test case that I ran gave me what I was hoping to see--that is, consistent results with everyone else
IsaDC: All right!
Matt_King: Great!
Radio group testing
Matt_King: It's very odd that several of the plans had 8 out of 15 tests done
Matt_King: Is that because it's how many of the tests didn't change when we updated to the new version of the plan?
Matt_King: Or is it maybe because the bot didn't produce results for those tests?
IsaDC: If I remember correctly, the tests were for JAWS, and they matched with a very old test run that we did.
IsaDC: I don't know where those results are coming from because I didn't have any JAWS tests done, yet
Matt_King: So those must be from the prior runs of the plan
IsaDC: For "radio group with tab index", the NVDA Bot didn't run all the tests. I ran it again, but I haven't yet checked if it finished or not
Matt_King: The "active descendant" one, it looks like the NVDA Bot did everything--AT responses for 15 out of 15
Matt_King: Then there's a bot run that says "responses for zero of 15 tests recorded." It looks like it's just not running
Matt_King: Oh, it says "15 tests cancelled"
Matt_King: Did a human definitely do that? Did you maybe cancel it by accident, IsaDC? Or is there a bug?
IsaDC: I didn't press the button in the "manage bot run" dialog
howard-e: Just confirming, after looking at the log for that run, there is a bug with the automation
howard-e: I think it might be related to some work that's being done to improve the automation stability
Matt_King: Ironic!
howard-e: I think the best thing is to wait until Bocoup can verify that the way is clear
Matt_King: Okay. When the coast is clear, could you let IsaDC, James, and me know?
howard-e: Will do
Matt_King: Okay. In the mean time, we still have the other runs that people can work on
Matt_King: So, "active descendant". IsaDC and Hadi are assigned to JAWS for the first one
IsaDC: Hadi isn't here today, but I will send him an e-mail
IsaDC: I will have my testing done by the end of tomorrow
Matt_King: Awesome
Matt_King: For "active descendant" with VoiceOver, it's Joe_Humbert and IsaDC that are currently assigned
Matt_King: We only have Hadi assigned on the "roving tab index" test plan for JAWS
Matt_King: Are IsaDC and Hadi the only JAWS users we have available?
mmoss: I have access to JAWS, but I don't have version 2025, yet (we're still working with IT to get the license for that)
IsaDC: I'm going to run one, so I may as well run the other one
Matt_King: So, what was true for the NVDA bot is also true for the VoiceOver bot?
Joe_Humbert: Were some of these updated recently?
Matt_King: yes. The "radio" test plans are fully up-to-date
Matt_King: That's why 7 of your 15 tests are not done
Matt_King: For the 8 tests that say they are done, we should have you take a look and confirm
Joe_Humbert: Sure, I can do that
Matt_King: Oh, mmoss is also assigned on this one. That means we have three people assigned
mmoss: I'm also assigned for NVDA
Matt_King: So, mmoss, you're completing the "disclosure" one
Matt_King: I wonder if we should wait to have any bot updates before you continue your work
Matt_King: Unlike Joe_Humbert, you didn't previously run this one, so you don't have any prior results
Matt_King: What's the ETA for a fix to the bots, here?
jugglinmike: I think by the end of the day
IsaDC: I will send mmoss an e-mail once I have bot results for him
Matt_King: The only person who is sitting out in the cold right now is dean
Matt_King: We'll have a whole new test plan next week, so maybe we'll hold you in reserve for now
dean: I'll be attending a conference, but I should have some time
dean: I can take the bot results and copy them out and paste them in. It's just that I have a real hard time typing things while I'm listening to them
Joe_Humbert: I can help you install the recorder
dean: Thanks! Let's do that
Matt_King: Thank you, Joe_Humbert!
Matt_King: Okay, we have a plan for "radio group active descendant."
Matt_King: mmoss is taking care of disclosure navigation
Matt_King: When we get a bot fix in place, IsaDC will e-mail mmoss
Joe_Humbert: I noticed there is only one person testing JAWS for "roving tab index". Are we just pushing that out for next week?
Matt_King: We would love to do that now if someone is available
Joe_Humbert: I don't have JAWS 2025, but could I do it using JAWS forty-minute mode?
Matt_King: Sure
Matt_King: Let's see how IsaDC's schedule is
Joe_Humbert: I may not be able to attend next meeting next Wednesday--I have a lot of meetings on Wednesdays. Thursday meetings are better for me
automating JAWS
jugglinmike: If JAWS ever implements AT Driver, it would be nice if they allowed automation without a license
jugglinmike: That would make our work a lot easier, and the same goes for many developers who might automate JAWS to test their own applications
Matt_King: I don't know if they'd be open to that, but it's a good call out. We should be thinking about how to manage secrets like JAWS licenses