Meeting minutes
11: 04 <julierawe> zakim, start meeting
11: 04 <julierawe> present+
11: 04 <julierawe> rrsagent, start minutes
11: 05 <julierawe> zakim, where are you?
11: 05 <julierawe> invite zakim
11: 06 *** Zakim (zakim@65de2920.team.cloak) has joined the channel
11: 06 <julierawe> chair: julierawe
11: 06 <julierawe> Meeting: WCAG 3 Coordination Subgroup
11: 06 <julierawe> date: 13 feb 2025
11: 06 <julierawe> regrets: Lisa
11: 06 <julierawe> present+
11: 07 <julierawe> zakim, clear agenda
11: 07 <Zakim> agenda cleared
11: 07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Trigger warnings
11: 07 * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
11: 07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Appropriate tone
11: 07 * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
11: 07 *** Frankie (~Frankie@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has joined the channel
11: 07 <kirkwood> present+
11: 07 <Frankie> present+
11: 07 *** tiffanyburtin (~tiffanyburtin@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has joined the channel
11: 07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Any other WCAG 3 issues
11: 07 * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
11: 08 <tiffanyburtin> present+
11: 08 <julierawe> zakim, next item
11: 08 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Trigger warnings -- taken up [from julierawe]
11: 09 <julierawe> Frankie is in Image and Media. Parallel work is going well. Focusing first on captions.
11: 10 <julierawe> Frankie We are starting with one requirement, doing it together, and then will divide up the work.
11: 10 <julierawe> Frankie We have detailed minutes to support asynchronous work and use of AT
11: 11 <julierawe> Frankie The group is working well so far.
11: 11 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin My barrier is my health. Hoping to attend more soon.
11: 12 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin I'm in the other images group—Visual Appearance that includes Text Appearance. DJ is aware of COGA work.
11: 12 <julierawe> kirkwood I'm in Help and Triggers group. Going well so far.
11: 13 <julierawe> https://
11: 14 <julierawe> Please bookmark this tracking doc
11: 16 <julierawe> I also linked to this tracking doc in the WCAG 3 section of COGA action items: https://
11: 20 <julierawe> Rashmi will share Trigger Warnings draft issue paper with her WCAG 3 group
11: 20 <julierawe> zakim, next item
11: 20 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Appropriate tone -- taken up [from julierawe]
11: 22 <julierawe> julierawe Does anyone in COGA have insights into origin of Appropriate Tone requirement?
11: 22 <julierawe> Frankie I was part of TPAC conversations in 2023. "Appropriate tone" came up about not tricking people with the tone.
11: 22 <julierawe> Frankie Gregg may have insights
11: 23 <julierawe> Frankie Examples such as creating false urgency or artificial urgency
11: 23 <julierawe> Frankie Another example is misleading people in financial situations
11: 23 <julierawe> Frankie It is more about deception
11: 23 <julierawe> kirkwood Or triggering anxiety on purpose
11: 26 <julierawe> julierawe Sounds like a better fit for WCAG 3's "Safety and Deception" path
11: 26 <julierawe> Frankie There is a plain language element, making clear the meaning but without creating too much anxiety in the process
11: 29 <julierawe> Frankie Logical to include all aspects of writing in Plain Language
11: 30 <julierawe> Frankie Gregg gave an example of condescending too
11: 31 <julierawe> Frankie Appealing to false authority, false facts
11: 32 <julierawe> kirkwood You want the tone consistent with the voice or brand of the publisher
11: 32 <julierawe> Frankie This the work of style guides
11: 33 <julierawe> Frankie My job for 20 years was creating internal guidance for content creators
11: 35 <julierawe> julierawe I could see PLain Language including an assertion about tone
11: 36 <julierawe> Frankie Think about all of the potential pitfalls to the brand voice, including ethics and logical fallacies
11: 37 <julierawe> Frankie An assertion is probably the right way to introduce tone to WCAG 3 but would be great to have supplemental guidance on how to do that
11: 37 <julierawe> Action item: julierawe will reach out to Gregg to see if he has additional examples beyond the ones that Frankie shared
11: 38 <julierawe> zakim, next item
11: 38 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Any other WCAG 3 issues -- taken up [from julierawe]
11: 38 <julierawe> Any other issues with WCAG 3 right now?
11: 39 <julierawe> Frankie Concerned about low participation and fast deadlines
11: 39 <julierawe> Frankie These are not new issues
11: 42 <julierawe> Action item: julierawe to suggest to Rachael that AG builds in time for a review sprint
11: 42 <julierawe> julierawe We need time to review and that's very hard when the paths are supposed to keep cranking out drafts
11: 43 <julierawe> julierawe Especially hard for COGA members who are drafting WCAG 3 but also working on COGA issues papers and next version of Making Content Usable
11: 43 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin Also hard for members with disabilities or health issues to keep up with the volume of work
11: 43 <julierawe> julierawe We need more than a week or two weeks to review pull requests
11: 46 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin Conferences like CSUN also make it hard to stick to these timelines
11: 47 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
11: 48 *** Frankie (~Frankie@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has quit (Frankie)
11: 48 <julierawe> rrsagent, generate minutes
11: 04 <julierawe> zakim, start meeting
11: 04 <julierawe> present+
11: 04 <julierawe> rrsagent, start minutes
11: 05 <julierawe> zakim, where are you?
11: 05 <julierawe> invite zakim
11: 06 *** Zakim (zakim@65de2920.team.cloak) has joined the channel
11: 06 <julierawe> chair: julierawe
11: 06 <julierawe> Meeting: WCAG 3 Coordination Subgroup
11: 06 <julierawe> date: 13 feb 2025
11: 06 <julierawe> regrets: Lisa
11: 06 <julierawe> present+
11: 07 <julierawe> zakim, clear agenda
11: 07 <Zakim> agenda cleared
11: 07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Trigger warnings
11: 07 * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
11: 07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Appropriate tone
11: 07 * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
11: 07 *** Frankie (~Frankie@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has joined the channel
11: 07 <kirkwood> present+
11: 07 <Frankie> present+
11: 07 *** tiffanyburtin (~tiffanyburtin@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has joined the channel
11: 07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Any other WCAG 3 issues
11: 07 * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
11: 08 <tiffanyburtin> present+
11: 08 <julierawe> zakim, next item
11: 08 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Trigger warnings -- taken up [from julierawe]
11: 09 <julierawe> Frankie is in Image and Media. Parallel work is going well. Focusing first on captions.
11: 10 <julierawe> Frankie We are starting with one requirement, doing it together, and then will divide up the work.
11: 10 <julierawe> Frankie We have detailed minutes to support asynchronous work and use of AT
11: 11 <julierawe> Frankie The group is working well so far.
11: 11 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin My barrier is my health. Hoping to attend more soon.
11: 12 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin I'm in the other images group—Visual Appearance that includes Text Appearance. DJ is aware of COGA work.
11: 12 <julierawe> kirkwood I'm in Help and Triggers group. Going well so far.
11: 13 <julierawe> https://
11: 14 <julierawe> Please bookmark this tracking doc
11: 16 <julierawe> I also linked to this tracking doc in the WCAG 3 section of COGA action items: https://
11: 20 <julierawe> Rashmi will share Trigger Warnings draft issue paper with her WCAG 3 group
11: 20 <julierawe> zakim, next item
11: 20 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Appropriate tone -- taken up [from julierawe]
11: 22 <julierawe> julierawe Does anyone in COGA have insights into origin of Appropriate Tone requirement?
11: 22 <julierawe> Frankie I was part of TPAC conversations in 2023. "Appropriate tone" came up about not tricking people with the tone.
11: 22 <julierawe> Frankie Gregg may have insights
11: 23 <julierawe> Frankie Examples such as creating false urgency or artificial urgency
11: 23 <julierawe> Frankie Another example is misleading people in financial situations
11: 23 <julierawe> Frankie It is more about deception
11: 23 <julierawe> kirkwood Or triggering anxiety on purpose
11: 26 <julierawe> julierawe Sounds like a better fit for WCAG 3's "Safety and Deception" path
11: 26 <julierawe> Frankie There is a plain language element, making clear the meaning but without creating too much anxiety in the process
11: 29 <julierawe> Frankie Logical to include all aspects of writing in Plain Language
11: 30 <julierawe> Frankie Gregg gave an example of condescending too
11: 31 <julierawe> Frankie Appealing to false authority, false facts
11: 32 <julierawe> kirkwood You want the tone consistent with the voice or brand of the publisher
11: 32 <julierawe> Frankie This the work of style guides
11: 33 <julierawe> Frankie My job for 20 years was creating internal guidance for content creators
11: 35 <julierawe> julierawe I could see PLain Language including an assertion about tone
11: 36 <julierawe> Frankie Think about all of the potential pitfalls to the brand voice, including ethics and logical fallacies
11: 37 <julierawe> Frankie An assertion is probably the right way to introduce tone to WCAG 3 but would be great to have supplemental guidance on how to do that
11: 37 <julierawe> Action item: julierawe will reach out to Gregg to see if he has additional examples beyond the ones that Frankie shared
11: 38 <julierawe> zakim, next item
11: 38 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Any other WCAG 3 issues -- taken up [from julierawe]
11: 38 <julierawe> Any other issues with WCAG 3 right now?
11: 39 <julierawe> Frankie Concerned about low participation and fast deadlines
11: 39 <julierawe> Frankie These are not new issues
11: 42 <julierawe> Action item: julierawe to suggest to Rachael that AG builds in time for a review sprint
11: 42 <julierawe> julierawe We need time to review and that's very hard when the paths are supposed to keep cranking out drafts
11: 43 <julierawe> julierawe Especially hard for COGA members who are drafting WCAG 3 but also working on COGA issues papers and next version of Making Content Usable
11: 43 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin Also hard for members with disabilities or health issues to keep up with the volume of work
11: 43 <julierawe> julierawe We need more than a week or two weeks to review pull requests
11: 46 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin Conferences like CSUN also make it hard to stick to these timelines
11: 47 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
11: 48 *** Frankie (~Frankie@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has quit (Frankie)
11: 48 <julierawe> rrsagent, generate minutes