16:57:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
16:57:23 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/13-coga-irc
16:57:24 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:57:26 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:57:29 <julierawe> 11:04 <julierawe> zakim, start meeting
16:57:29 <julierawe> 11:04 <julierawe> present+
16:57:29 <julierawe> 11:04 <julierawe> rrsagent, start minutes
16:57:29 <julierawe> 11:05 <julierawe> zakim, where are you?
16:57:30 <julierawe> 11:05 <julierawe> invite zakim
16:57:30 <julierawe> 11:06 *** Zakim (zakim@65de2920.team.cloak) has joined the channel
16:57:30 <julierawe> 11:06 <julierawe> chair: julierawe
16:57:32 <julierawe> 11:06 <julierawe> Meeting: WCAG 3 Coordination Subgroup
16:57:32 <julierawe> 11:06 <julierawe> date: 13 feb 2025
16:57:32 <julierawe> 11:06 <julierawe> regrets: Lisa
16:57:32 <julierawe> 11:06 <julierawe> present+
16:57:32 <julierawe> 11:07 <julierawe> zakim, clear agenda
16:57:32 <julierawe> 11:07 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:57:33 <julierawe> 11:07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Trigger warnings
16:57:33 <julierawe> 11:07 * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
16:57:33 <julierawe> 11:07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Appropriate tone
16:57:34 <julierawe> 11:07 * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
16:57:34 <julierawe> 11:07 *** Frankie (~Frankie@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has joined the channel
16:57:34 <julierawe> 11:07 <kirkwood> present+
16:57:35 <julierawe> 11:07 <Frankie> present+
16:57:35 <julierawe> 11:07 *** tiffanyburtin (~tiffanyburtin@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has joined the channel
16:57:35 <julierawe> 11:07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Any other WCAG 3 issues
16:57:36 <julierawe> 11:07 * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
16:57:36 <julierawe> 11:08 <tiffanyburtin> present+
16:57:36 <julierawe> 11:08 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:57:37 <julierawe> 11:08 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Trigger warnings -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:57:37 <julierawe> 11:09 <julierawe> Frankie is in Image and Media. Parallel work is going well. Focusing first on captions.
16:57:37 <julierawe> 11:10 <julierawe> Frankie We are starting with one requirement, doing it together, and then will divide up the work.
16:57:38 <julierawe> 11:10 <julierawe> Frankie We have detailed minutes to support asynchronous work and use of AT
16:57:38 <julierawe> 11:11 <julierawe> Frankie The group is working well so far.
16:57:38 <julierawe> 11:11 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin My barrier is my health. Hoping to attend more soon.
16:57:39 <julierawe> 11:12 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin I'm in the other images group—Visual Appearance that includes Text Appearance. DJ is aware of COGA work.
16:57:39 <julierawe> 11:12 <julierawe> kirkwood I'm in Help and Triggers group. Going well so far.
16:57:39 <julierawe> 11:13 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VhXbUz8PZpRTMvHJq5ZXPwPNXwFNFQDyBi9SWbL6awk/edit?gid=0#gid=0
16:57:40 <julierawe> 11:14 <julierawe> Please bookmark this tracking doc
16:57:40 <julierawe> 11:16 <julierawe> I also linked to this tracking doc in the WCAG 3 section of COGA action items: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit?tab=t.0
16:57:40 <julierawe> 11:20 <julierawe> Rashmi will share Trigger Warnings draft issue paper with her WCAG 3 group
16:57:41 <julierawe> 11:20 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:57:41 <julierawe> 11:20 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Appropriate tone -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:57:41 <julierawe> 11:22 <julierawe> julierawe Does anyone in COGA have insights into origin of Appropriate Tone requirement?
16:57:42 <julierawe> 11:22 <julierawe> Frankie I was part of TPAC conversations in 2023. "Appropriate tone" came up about not tricking people with the tone.
16:57:42 <julierawe> 11:22 <julierawe> Frankie Gregg may have insights
16:57:42 <julierawe> 11:23 <julierawe> Frankie Examples such as creating false urgency or artificial urgency
16:57:43 <julierawe> 11:23 <julierawe> Frankie Another example is misleading people in financial situations
16:57:43 <julierawe> 11:23 <julierawe> Frankie It is more about deception
16:57:43 <julierawe> 11:23 <julierawe> kirkwood Or triggering anxiety on purpose
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:26 <julierawe> julierawe Sounds like a better fit for WCAG 3's "Safety and Deception" path
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:26 <julierawe> Frankie There is a plain language element, making clear the meaning but without creating too much anxiety in the process
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:29 <julierawe> Frankie Logical to include all aspects of writing in Plain Language
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:30 <julierawe> Frankie Gregg gave an example of condescending too
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:31 <julierawe> Frankie Appealing to false authority, false facts
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:32 <julierawe> kirkwood You want the tone consistent with the voice or brand of the publisher
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:32 <julierawe> Frankie This the work of style guides
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:33 <julierawe> Frankie My job for 20 years was creating internal guidance for content creators
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:35 <julierawe> julierawe I could see PLain Language including an assertion about tone
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:36 <julierawe> Frankie Think about all of the potential pitfalls to the brand voice, including ethics and logical fallacies
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:37 <julierawe> Frankie An assertion is probably the right way to introduce tone to WCAG 3 but would be great to have supplemental guidance on how to do that
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:37 <julierawe> Action item: julierawe will reach out to Gregg to see if he has additional examples beyond the ones that Frankie shared
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:38 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:38 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Any other WCAG 3 issues -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:38 <julierawe> Any other issues with WCAG 3 right now?
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:39 <julierawe> Frankie Concerned about low participation and fast deadlines
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:39 <julierawe> Frankie These are not new issues
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:42 <julierawe> Action item: julierawe to suggest to Rachael that AG builds in time for a review sprint
16:57:50 <julierawe> 11:42 <julierawe> julierawe We need time to review and that's very hard when the paths are supposed to keep cranking out drafts
16:57:51 <julierawe> 11:43 <julierawe> julierawe Especially hard for COGA members who are drafting WCAG 3 but also working on COGA issues papers and next version of Making Content Usable
16:57:51 <julierawe> 11:43 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin Also hard for members with disabilities or health issues to keep up with the volume of work
16:57:51 <julierawe> 11:43 <julierawe> julierawe We need more than a week or two weeks to review pull requests
16:57:52 <julierawe> 11:46 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin Conferences like CSUN also make it hard to stick to these timelines
16:57:52 <julierawe> 11:47 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
16:57:52 <julierawe> 11:48 *** Frankie (~Frankie@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has quit (Frankie)
16:57:53 <julierawe> 11:48 <julierawe> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:57:53 <julierawe> 11:04 <julierawe> zakim, start meeting
16:57:53 <julierawe> 11:04 <julierawe> present+
16:57:54 <julierawe> 11:04 <julierawe> rrsagent, start minutes
16:57:54 <julierawe> 11:05 <julierawe> zakim, where are you?
16:57:54 <julierawe> 11:05 <julierawe> invite zakim
16:57:55 <julierawe> 11:06 *** Zakim (zakim@65de2920.team.cloak) has joined the channel
16:57:55 <julierawe> 11:06 <julierawe> chair: julierawe
16:57:55 <julierawe> 11:06 <julierawe> Meeting: WCAG 3 Coordination Subgroup
16:57:56 <julierawe> 11:06 <julierawe> date: 13 feb 2025
16:57:56 <julierawe> 11:06 <julierawe> regrets: Lisa
16:57:56 <julierawe> 11:06 <julierawe> present+
16:57:57 <julierawe> 11:07 <julierawe> zakim, clear agenda
16:57:57 <julierawe> 11:07 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:57:57 <julierawe> 11:07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Trigger warnings
16:57:58 <julierawe> 11:07 * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
16:57:58 <julierawe> 11:07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Appropriate tone
16:57:58 <julierawe> 11:07 * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
16:57:59 <julierawe> 11:07 *** Frankie (~Frankie@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has joined the channel
16:57:59 <julierawe> 11:07 <kirkwood> present+
16:57:59 <julierawe> 11:07 <Frankie> present+
16:58:00 <julierawe> 11:07 *** tiffanyburtin (~tiffanyburtin@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has joined the channel
16:58:00 <julierawe> 11:07 <julierawe> Agenda+ Any other WCAG 3 issues
16:58:00 <julierawe> 11:07 * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
16:58:01 <julierawe> 11:08 <tiffanyburtin> present+
16:58:01 <julierawe> 11:08 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:58:01 <julierawe> 11:08 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Trigger warnings -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:58:02 <julierawe> 11:09 <julierawe> Frankie is in Image and Media. Parallel work is going well. Focusing first on captions.
16:58:02 <julierawe> 11:10 <julierawe> Frankie We are starting with one requirement, doing it together, and then will divide up the work.
16:58:03 <julierawe> 11:10 <julierawe> Frankie We have detailed minutes to support asynchronous work and use of AT
16:58:03 <julierawe> 11:11 <julierawe> Frankie The group is working well so far.
16:58:03 <julierawe> 11:11 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin My barrier is my health. Hoping to attend more soon.
16:58:04 <julierawe> 11:12 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin I'm in the other images group—Visual Appearance that includes Text Appearance. DJ is aware of COGA work.
16:58:04 <julierawe> 11:12 <julierawe> kirkwood I'm in Help and Triggers group. Going well so far.
16:58:04 <julierawe> 11:13 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VhXbUz8PZpRTMvHJq5ZXPwPNXwFNFQDyBi9SWbL6awk/edit?gid=0#gid=0
16:58:05 <julierawe> 11:14 <julierawe> Please bookmark this tracking doc
16:58:05 <julierawe> 11:16 <julierawe> I also linked to this tracking doc in the WCAG 3 section of COGA action items: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit?tab=t.0
16:58:05 <julierawe> 11:20 <julierawe> Rashmi will share Trigger Warnings draft issue paper with her WCAG 3 group
16:58:06 <julierawe> 11:20 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:58:06 <julierawe> 11:20 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Appropriate tone -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:58:06 <julierawe> 11:22 <julierawe> julierawe Does anyone in COGA have insights into origin of Appropriate Tone requirement?
16:58:07 <julierawe> 11:22 <julierawe> Frankie I was part of TPAC conversations in 2023. "Appropriate tone" came up about not tricking people with the tone.
16:58:07 <julierawe> 11:22 <julierawe> Frankie Gregg may have insights
16:58:07 <julierawe> 11:23 <julierawe> Frankie Examples such as creating false urgency or artificial urgency
16:58:08 <julierawe> 11:23 <julierawe> Frankie Another example is misleading people in financial situations
16:58:08 <julierawe> 11:23 <julierawe> Frankie It is more about deception
16:58:08 <julierawe> 11:23 <julierawe> kirkwood Or triggering anxiety on purpose
16:58:09 <julierawe> 11:26 <julierawe> julierawe Sounds like a better fit for WCAG 3's "Safety and Deception" path
16:58:10 <julierawe> 11:26 <julierawe> Frankie There is a plain language element, making clear the meaning but without creating too much anxiety in the process
16:58:10 <julierawe> 11:29 <julierawe> Frankie Logical to include all aspects of writing in Plain Language
16:58:10 <julierawe> 11:30 <julierawe> Frankie Gregg gave an example of condescending too
16:58:11 <julierawe> 11:31 <julierawe> Frankie Appealing to false authority, false facts
16:58:11 <julierawe> 11:32 <julierawe> kirkwood You want the tone consistent with the voice or brand of the publisher
16:58:11 <julierawe> 11:32 <julierawe> Frankie This the work of style guides
16:58:12 <julierawe> 11:33 <julierawe> Frankie My job for 20 years was creating internal guidance for content creators
16:58:12 <julierawe> 11:35 <julierawe> julierawe I could see PLain Language including an assertion about tone
16:58:12 <julierawe> 11:36 <julierawe> Frankie Think about all of the potential pitfalls to the brand voice, including ethics and logical fallacies
16:58:13 <julierawe> 11:37 <julierawe> Frankie An assertion is probably the right way to introduce tone to WCAG 3 but would be great to have supplemental guidance on how to do that
16:58:13 <julierawe> 11:37 <julierawe> Action item: julierawe will reach out to Gregg to see if he has additional examples beyond the ones that Frankie shared
16:58:13 <julierawe> 11:38 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:58:14 <julierawe> 11:38 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Any other WCAG 3 issues -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:58:14 <julierawe> 11:38 <julierawe> Any other issues with WCAG 3 right now?
16:58:14 <julierawe> 11:39 <julierawe> Frankie Concerned about low participation and fast deadlines
16:58:15 <julierawe> 11:39 <julierawe> Frankie These are not new issues
16:58:15 <julierawe> 11:42 <julierawe> Action item: julierawe to suggest to Rachael that AG builds in time for a review sprint
16:58:15 <julierawe> 11:42 <julierawe> julierawe We need time to review and that's very hard when the paths are supposed to keep cranking out drafts
16:58:16 <julierawe> 11:43 <julierawe> julierawe Especially hard for COGA members who are drafting WCAG 3 but also working on COGA issues papers and next version of Making Content Usable
16:58:16 <julierawe> 11:43 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin Also hard for members with disabilities or health issues to keep up with the volume of work
16:58:16 <julierawe> 11:43 <julierawe> julierawe We need more than a week or two weeks to review pull requests
16:58:17 <julierawe> 11:46 <julierawe> tiffanyburtin Conferences like CSUN also make it hard to stick to these timelines
16:58:17 <julierawe> 11:47 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
16:58:17 <julierawe> 11:48 *** Frankie (~Frankie@dd4fe3a2.publics.cloak) has quit (Frankie)
16:58:18 <julierawe> 11:48 <julierawe> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:58:18 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
16:58:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/13-coga-minutes.html julierawe
16:58:26 <julierawe> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:58:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/13-coga-minutes.html julierawe
16:58:32 <julierawe> zakim, clear agenda
16:58:32 <Zakim> agenda cleared
17:57:28 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #COGA
18:58:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #COGA
20:31:10 <kirkwood_> kirkwood_ has joined #COGA