Meeting minutes
Review agenda and next meeting dates
https://
Matt_King: Requests for changes to agenda?
IsaDC: I'd like to discuss issue #1195 for the "disclosure" test plan
Matt_King: Sure
Matt_King: Next AT Driver Subgroup meeting: Monday, March 10
Matt_King: Next Community Group Meeting: Thursday February 20
Current status
Matt_King: Same 11 plans. We have some issues that we're working on resolving to move some of those forward
Matt_King: The draft review and refactoring--that's current as of today. Four plans in "Draft review" (five in the test queue, but the "disclosure" plan is just a re-run)
Matt_King: And two "slider" plans which are very close
Matt_King: In terms of testing schedule for the next few months, IsaDC and I are still working on that. We hope to be able to talk about it next week
Testing status
Matt_King: We can review the test queue in order
Matt_King: Starting with "disclosure navigation menu" example re-run
mmoss: This one stumped me a bit. I wonder if it's due to differences in macOS...
Matt_King: Is the issue primarily with the output?
mmoss: There was specifically the test where you navigate from an expanded disclosure button to the page link using "tab"
mmoss: Similarly, when you use "shift+tab" and move from the collapsed disclosure button to a link in the dropdown
mmoss: Tab and "shift+tab" did not seem to actually function for me. Which is bizarre
Matt_King: Yeah, that's what your AT responses look like to me
Matt_King: That almost seems slightly unbelievable
mmoss: Right. I've re-run the test several times because I thought I was missing something
mmoss: It's not that it does nothing. Instead of the screen reader's cursor moving into the menu, it moves from the button you're currently on to the next button
Matt_King: Ah, so, skipping over all the links (because the links appear in between)
mmoss: Right
mmoss: This is test 9, specifically after "tab"
Matt_King: I'm encountering a different behavior. This doesn't feel like a VoiceOver problem, though
IsaDC: I ran it, and it goes to the link after pressing "tab"
Matt_King: Hm, this time, it worked! It went to "overview"
Matt_King: Now, I am not running with default VoiceOver settings at this moment.
Matt_King: I just re-ran it, and this time, it went to "administration"!
mmoss: That's what I've been observing
Matt_King: Oh, I'm in Chrome! I'm not supposed to be in Chrome!
mmoss: Yeah, I've been testing Safari
Matt_King: Well, that doesn't bode well for Chrome, but that's a separate concern.
IsaDC: I've run it twice, now, and it goes to the correct place
IsaDC: I'm using Safari version 18.2
mmoss: I'm using Safari 18.3
Matt_King: First time in Safari, it worked for me--it went to the "current page" link
Matt_King: And two times in a row, it demonstrated the expected behavior
IsaDC: I'm installing an update, now
IsaDC: To see if I can reproduce the behavior that mmos reported
mmoss: I checked Joe's results. Joe was running with Safari version 14
IsaDC: Really? That shouldn't be accepted by the app because I specified the version...
Matt_King: If we require a minimum version, and then you put in a version that's older than that, you shouldn't even be allowed to run the test
IsaDC: I don't know what's going wrong
Matt_King: There might be an issue with the app, then, howard-e
IsaDC: This is the "disclosure navigation" test plan
IsaDC: I set the minimum version to 15
IsaDC: And Joe was able to run with version 14
howard-e: I'll make a note and check out what happened there
mmoss: There was one more conflict
mmoss: Test 14, "activate the link"
mmoss: When I do it, it takes a beat, and then I hear the activation click, and then it says "you are currently on a region"
mmoss: Joe reported the sound
IsaDC: I don't think that's correct for us to record because it is a sound; it's not output
Michael_Fairchild: we don't record "Earcons"?
mmoss: No; I think Joe just typed that in
Michael_Fairchild: I'm curious why we don't consider earcons
Matt_King: We've never encountered a situation where that would be considered...
James_Scholes: I think we have (like the toggle button case), but we don't have anything in the app
James_Scholes: There's nothing in the app which allows us to describe an earcon
Matt_King: I could imagine us doing that, but when you're running a screen reader with its default state and default verbosity... At least so far, we haven't encountered any situation where an appropriate default response would be to only make a sound
Michael_Fairchild: I think there might be some scenarios where we do encounter that as the expected output, but maybe we just haven't reached those scenarios, yet
Matt_King: The way to get rid of these conflicts--it seems on the surface like they may all be related to version mismatches. Getting everyone on the same version is probably going to be our first step toward getting these resolved
Matt_King: So we have "radio group using active descendant." A brand new version
Matt_King: We have some work that's already been done--let's see how much of that has been preserved
IsaDC: Some of that has very old data
mmoss: I'm happy to start over on that one
Matt_King: Right now, for JAWS, we have Hadi, and it shows 8 of 15 tests complete. Are you concerned about the 8 tests completed by Hadi which might need to be re-run
IsaDC: Yes. My concern is that on the NVDA table, we recently re-ran them and have very difference results
Matt_King: It looks like your run of JAWS also has 8 of 15 complete
IsaDC: But I had zero before--I hadn't run it. Where are those eight coming from? From a very old version?
Matt_King: Hmm, okay. It's possible that you need to validate those results, then
Matt_King: We could delete Alyssa's run, here. That means we would need to get another person for NVDA
Matt_King: For JAWS "radio group active descendant", we have IsaDC and Hadi
Matt_King: Should we keep those assignment as-is?
IsaDC: I'm happy with that. We would just have to double-check that the results still match
Matt_King: We could ask Hadi to just run the seven and check for conflicts
IsaDC: I can e-mail Hadi
mmoss: I can run the NVDA test plan
IsaDC: We can use the bot for that, first, and then assign you
mmoss: Thanks!
IsaDC: I'll delete Alyssa, run the bot, and add mmoss and myself
Matt_King: Then, for VoiceOver, we have IsaDC, Joe, and mmoss
IsaDC: But that data is incorrect
Matt_King: mmoss can you do both VoiceOver and NVDA?
mmoss: Sure thing. I'll wipe my previous results and run through the test, again
IsaDC: Joe had results, but the results he got imported into the test plan are not the same
Matt_King: I think we want Joe to get his Mac updated before we ask him to run more tests
Matt_King: So, IsaDC, we might need you to run the VoiceOver one unless you want to write Joe and ask him to get his mac updated
Matt_King: Dean said he is available in the note where he said he couldn't attend today
Matt_King: I'm wondering if--we could have Dean and mmoss do VoiceOver for this
Matt_King: But I think we should focus on getting one of them done. Let's do the "active descendant", first, and get them all done. Then, if we have more bandwidth, we'll go to the next "radio" plan
Matt_King: I guess we're just a little short on testers at this moment
App issue 1162 - Generating updated reports for new AT releases
github: w3c/
stalgia: We had some time to internally align on this
stalgia: With the addition of a new panel and the need for that panel to be public-facing, we agreed that the most appropriate place was the "data management" page
stalgia: I'm excited to do some rethinking about how to reduce complexity on some pages, but that doesn't need to happen at this moment
Matt_King: Are you thinking an "automated run history" or something like that as a separate table?
stalgia: Pretty much. I think you wanted an interactive UI for initiating runs to be above the table, but I think we can put it below the table
Matt_King: As long as we have something that allows us to see that administrative action is required
stalgia: Great, that makes sense
Matt_King: Will you update 1162 with a revision of that top comment? A sort of description of what the UI will be?
Matt_King: I think we can stub it out there and then we can review in the actual UI
stalgia: that makes sense. We can do that
Matt_King: This is going to be a really big deal! Especially when we have the latest versions of all the screen readers so we can re-run all the test plans. So, thank you!