Meeting minutes
[going over agenda]
Publication Status
Publication Status
We are still moving towards Feb 25 date
We have no changes but moving towards getting items ready for that
The big one being around the color settings practice
Practice Page for Supporting color settings
github: w3c/
Matt_king: The most visible change is that we've changed the title to Supporting Color Contrast Settings
Matt_King: This affected the practices page
Matt_King: 2 links are here. One to the revised Practices Page but not much to look at here
Matt_King: It's fairly placed down the page but wonder what others think on this
Matt_King: Supporting Color Contrast Settings is the 6th card based on the page structure. The description I put is the first couple sentences from the page
<Matt_King> Snippet from practices page:
<Matt_King> Some people need more than the required default minimum color contrast to perceive content. make content responsive to operating system color and contrast
<Matt_King> settings so it meets people's needs for different colors or higher contrast.
Matt_King: This is essentially our marketing text for that page
Matt_King: At some point, I wanted to use the word "high" or "higher" contrast. We eliminated that from the title so included it in the description
Matt_King: The thinking I had here is for people's perception of different colors
Matt_King: The very first sentence doesn't address it fully because some people need more than the minimum default contrast. We have to be careful not to be too wordy
Adam_Page: I also had a reaction to the first sentence that's important to perceiving the content
Adam_Page: Another rationale is about the comfort or cognitive ease of interpreting the page
Adam_Page: Thinking for example of folks with migraines who prefer dark mode
Matt_King: We could make this first sentence a little longer. Maybe we don't need the words "to perceive the content"
Matt_King: Maybe we can just say "some people need" ...
Adam_Page: I agree. Would like to just get rid of the first sentence and say something like "It meets peoples' needs or preferences"
jongund: I think we could go with just the 2nd sentence
Matt_King: I think you're right jongund. We Can eliminate the first sentence
Matt_King: I will make that change. That will cause me to do a bit of editorial at the top of the page so I will revise the introduction a little based on this discussion
Matt_King: I would like to spend a bit of time deep diving into the instructions in the first section
Jem: [sharing screen to display User Options for Adjusting Color Contrast]
Matt_King: This made me realize we might not have the word "contrast" in this section
<Jem> https://
Matt_King: Should it just be "user options for adjusting colors"?
Matt_King: Or "Colors and Contrast"?
Adam_Page: I like that
Matt_King: Okay so in this table's description column, I made quite a few changes because I felt it important to tell authors what happens if "I don't do anything to support this"
Matt_King: Like in the "Invert Colors" row, if the user does this then everything happens automatically
Matt_King: They just get these alternate colors
Matt_King: In the Practices column, I shared that to ensure your site is rendered well and meet minimum color requirements of WCAG
Matt_King: This is so they know that this is what happens
Matt_King: The next 2 also note is not automatically changed by the operating system -- so the setting only works when authors provide support
Matt_King: I put that in "Increase Contrast" and "Color Scheme" rows
Matt_King: Are these statements accurate for those 2 rows?
jongund: I would say "rendering of apps"
jongund: I don't know if typically is needed. I don't know if there's any browsers that changes rendering based on that setting
Matt_King: Some browsers do
jongund: I suppose Chrome does
Matt_King: yes, when I'm saying app, I'm meaning the browser
Matt_King: Should we say "native app" there so it's clear?
howard-e: I didn't but I could see others interpreting it that way
Daniel: Can we use content ... [missed]
Matt_King: I'm thinking in some of these cases, the browser changing may cause some of these changes
Daniel: I wasn't clear that "app" was for that so maybe we should make it clear
jongund: Yep, maybe we should say the rendering app includes browser
jongund: So breaking it up so when users increase contrast, the browser rendering changes but not the browser content
Matt_King: Well the apps won't change unless the app actively supports "Increase Contrast", in iOS at least
jongund: Well I suppose if people build their own way
Matt_King: I don't know but maybe some frameworks support and some don't. The author would have to choose to build it in a way to support
Matt_King: So I don't want to say the apps are always going to do it
Matt: I didn't want to say something incorrect
… If you do nothing in dark mode or increased contrast you are not hurting users, but the browser itself may look different
jongund: Yes. Borwsers don't do anything automatically
Matt: So your browser Chrome will be in dark mode but the web that doesn't support it will render normally
jongund: Right.
Matt: Last row of the table --description of forced colors, first sentence
<Matt_King> description of color themes:
<Matt_King> Accessibility feature that automatically forces the operating system and apps to render content using an alternative color theme chosen by the user. Some
<Matt_King> of the themes are designed to provide extra high contrast, and users can customize their chosen color theme. Browser default styles respond to this setting
<Matt_King> using the system colors described below. The user-chosen theme does not automatically override author specified colors, so content can disappear in certain
<Matt_King> circumstances.
jongund: Newer Windows 11 versions have this under Accessibility > Contrast theme
Matt: I need to fix this, thank you, jongund
Matt: Firstpoint of the description is that Windows forces [...] Is that a correct statement?
jongund: Yes
Matt: Browsers respond to this setting [...] Is that correct?
jongund: Whatever style you put on your website, if it's text content, it will render with the color for text content, if it is a link it will use the link
Matt: It forces a color scheme to be used for certain kinds of contents but there's certain kinds that are excluded, right?
jongund: Everything will be forced into something else, depends on the markup
… Links will render on a different color. Buttons and other form controls have another color. Images are not changed
… Probably other media too, like videos
Matt: Browsers force the user colors on all content using the semantic markup to choose a color based on the system colors
jongund: That's too far. They have their own colors. Generally they are related to system colors, but it's not clear if it's system color or some other color.
… For example a range control tested in different contrast themes doesn't match up with any system colors foro the browser
Matt: So if you have a div role=slider it's not going to render as a slider. Does it mean that everything using ARIA is going to be rendered as a text?
jongund: Yes if the container is text-based
Matt: ARIA markup has no effect on the choice of color the browser uses
… the user chooses a color theme and then the user can change that, right?
jongund: Users can create their own themes, not sure if they can change existing ones
… Seems you can choose more things from the store but you cannot put the colors yourselves
Matt: Do they tell you which colors are used when you choose the theme?
jongund: Yes, you can edit the colors, you can set background and foreground, you can pick from eight colors
Matt: Browsers choose to apply a theme t based in the type of contento elements in content
… To some extent they use system colors in a manner that is generally consistent with the chosen system colors
jongund: You are not going to get consistent colors betwen browsers
Matt: But there are somewhat relateed with the system colors table
jongund: It's not exactly so based on my testing
Matt: I'll try to make these changes.
jongund: I might be traveling next Tuesday byt I'll try to make the meeting
Matt: If others can take a look and scrutinize the accuracy of the statements
jongund: The browsers in general use the system colors, but they tend to pick up different colors based on different type of content
Matt: How complete is this?
jongund: I think there is more work to do. I am trying to consistently use the switch control for each of the sections to highlight what happens
… Probably we will need to update the switch examples to be consistent with what is in here
… We are also using SVG to render the control part of it. The div and button arejust containers. In actual switches we don't always do that
Matt: I think we can save this for later
jongund: Current color is somewhat limiting. I would probably rely more on system colors to mimic what browsers do with standard content
Matt: Let's get at least a first versionos what we are doing it 25 Feb
jongund: Under the system colors I just put some caution notes as well
Matt: On the names pages we have a style
jongund: Let me know what is best or change it please
Expandable region
Matt: Any volunteers?
Adam: I could do somethin with this.
Adam: I'll add you to w3c/