W3C

– DRAFT –
Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

03 February 2025

Attendees

Present
Jan, JeanneEC, Jennie_Delisi, julierawe, kirkwood, lisa
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
Jennie_Delisi

Meeting minutes

<lisa> clear q

<lisa> next item

<lisa> close item 1

<lisa> next item

Lisa: At the beginning of each month we will review schedules, what we are working on
… We will not do this weekly.
… 1: next version of Making Content Usable
… 2: Research papers - where we collect information to go into these documents.
… 3: helping parent groups: APA and AG
… 1: Making Content Usable work is focusing on new template
… plan is to make a version using new structure and template followed through for one objective
… This is to help people see if they like this before doing to much work.

Rain: We did try 1. Frankie also did one. There is also a 3rd. We just need 1 more subgroup meeting.
… The next subgroup meeting is February 6th.
… By next Monday we should have 3 examples ready to review as a group.
… I will not be on the meeting, so I will coordinate with Frankie.
… Someone from the subgroup should be able to represent.

(cannot hear Frankie)

<Frankie> My zoom will not unmute

<Frankie> I can meet Monday but not sure about this Thursday meeting

<Frankie> What time is the subgroup on Thursday?

Lisa: 11 EST

<Frankie> Ok, I can do that time on Thursday too. All good!

Rain: I will coordinate with Frankie and the other subgroup members.

Lisa: I have set things up so Rain can add in agenda items.
… The W3C calendars then automatically send emails.
… If anyone has trouble with these, please reach out.
… I will make a point to email to see if people are ok with the calendar.
… Assuming all goes well on Monday, then we need to move the rest of the patterns into the template - correct?

Rain: Yes.

<kirkwood> +1

Lisa: Suggestions - because of the amount of work we take a half a day and make a virtual face to face/ online meeting, with people who can help get things into the new template.

<kirkwood> yes

<Frankie> +1 to having a working session

Rain: I think that would be helpful once we align on the template.

Lisa: I will add to the agenda for next week's meeting to set working meeting to finish this objective and draft.
… In the Github I think we will make a new folder with new templates.

Rain: We have a folder in Google Drive.

Lisa: 1st part of the session (face to face) - getting things into the Google template. Afternoon - convert to working draft in Github in a new folder.
… Then people can help in the side that works best for them.
… Then by the end of the day we will have a pull request for the editor's draft.

<kirkwood> could you share access/location to drive folder?

Lisa: Do we know how we will handle internationalization in this next draft?
… We have a plan for getting from the template to an editor's draft.
… I want to know if there has been coordination with where internationalization will seit.

Julie: To my knowledge, that has not happened yet. I will reach out to Jan to get specifics.

Lisa: The question is when does the integration need to happen (at the template stage) or after we see it? Will it be an editor's note?
… There should be at least a plan about what is happening.

Frankie: I was filling out the first template update - some things occurred to me which will be helpful, but there has been lots of feedback.

Lisa: Personas should happen much later.
… We need to plan for this.

Frankie: I am pretty sure there is a meeting on Wednesday. I will be at that too.
… this is the community group - where the feedback is which is being collected.

Lisa: We are hoping in the next 2 weeks to have a draft available for at least our review.
… Then collect the editorial items.
… Some things we need to do includes understanding how we will handle internationalization in this drft.

Jan: We were going to try to present to this group.
… I think presenting to a smaller group of this group.
… We have been through all the patterns.
… 1st pass is done regarding which have internationalization impact
… Maybe we can review this during the editor's call or another time?

Lisa: For the editor's call this week maybe we can do a half hour on this, and half hour on the pull request?

Jan: I think if we can review, then have a single statement saying it has been reviewed and we are working on updates pattern by pattern.
… Our draft is very general, and that may be sufficient.
… But I want you to look at it first.

Lisa: We are only putting one objective's patterns in the first one.
… We could also flag those patterns in editor's note.

Jan: OK

Lisa: The other question - how to move forward with internationalization.
… We are not working on the next draft of personas.
… Let's focus on having the patterns the way we want them.
… We would want to publish as quickly as we can.

Jan: I think that is fine.
… We didn't get deep into the personas because we needed to focus on a different topic about a concern someone raised on another topic.
… We can shift and just focus on pattern modification and recommendations.

Lisa: It looks fantastic.
… Integrating it in is going to be a lot of work.

John K: It was a lot of strong feelings around personas.

Lisa: Let's try to get the guidance out.

<julierawe> +1 to Jan

Jan: I should be able to attend the editor's call

Rain: it is about the feedback

Lisa: I think we have a plan for editor's notes - that should work well with what Rain is doing.

Jan: I agree. We do have all of them reviewed, and items flagged.

Lisa: If there are changes - we could start getting some initial feedback.

Julie: I think there may be some feedback from the internationalization community group we could incorporate now.
… There are some small edits we could change so small phrases can be understood potentially by a larger group.

Lisa: Maybe.

Julie: the directions left and right may be inappropriate for vertical writing was flagged, for example.

Jan: Exactly. I think some things need to come to COGA, and ensure everyone is ok with them.
… We have not yet gotten them reviewed by COGA.
… I want to discuss from a process perspective, then get on the agenda for this meeting.

Lisa: We can give part of the call to that.

Julie: I would love to have at least some places we can say changes have been made based on this feedback.
… This would help build the relationship with them.

Lisa: Even if it is just one pattern. We can add an editor's note.
… asking for feedback. Other changes can say "will be made"
… Rain - which objective?

Lisa: some agreed to review files related to mental health.

Julie: I finished one, and added changes re data loss.
… Assuming that looks ok...

Lisa: I will also try to do reviews of that.
… I will accept that pull request, and then start a 2nd pull request
… The importance here: Frankie and Rain are putting things into a template.
… I'm not sure if they are taking material from the correct address.

Julie: Do you want us going through the open pull request?

Lisa: We have to. I would like to get it done so that Thursday's mental health subgroup meeting with can work with Rashmi
… We can then make a 2nd pull request to fix things.
… The Frankie and Rain, later in the day, can use the latest work.

Julie: I will make it a priority to finish going through the files.
… I will try to get to that today or tomorrow.

Lisa: I will try to do some more as well.
… I want to accept it and have a list of changes to go on.

Julie: I am looking at the raw git hack you created?

Lisa: That is right.
… Rain and Frankie - where are you taking your content from?

Rain: we have been taking content from the current version of Making Content Usable
… If you can give the correct link of what we should use, we can switch to that.

Frankie: I can double check that the wording I am using is current.

Lisa: Unfortunately, the new content is in the pull request. This has lots of changes.
… I think this is the latest link
… This is the main branch.

<lisa> https://w3c.github.io/coga/content-usable/

Rain: We won't be working until Thursday.

Lisa: Julie and I will try asynchronously to get the new IO version by Thursday, even though a paragraph will be missing.

Julie: I already found a file needing at least 3 changes.

Lisa: Maybe we can have a meeting on Wednesday with Rashmi. I will email Rashmi to check.

Julie: I might be available part of Wednesday morning.

Lisa: Then maybe we can do the changes together.

Julie: I will continue flagging the issues I note. This will help identify which files.

Lisa: OK, we can go through the process together.
… Going back to the actions.
… Images?
… Will we have an editors' note where they will be?

Lisa: we were going to do reviews on what is missing, have we dealt with findability well...
… This will be moved to the next draft.
… The next iteration.
… Then we will have an editorial review.
… The suggestions from the structure subgroup and the internationalization subgroup are worth mentioning.
… We have a document with issues from Github.
… We were thinking that instead of having so many documents related to the work needed that we would have a section called "feedback from other sources."
… Each has a table to contain their feedback.
… We could have a link to each spreadsheet, then when we have a discussion, we add it to this document

<kirkwood> could you put link in while talking about it?

Lisa: That was my proposal.
… There are some which will turn into big discussions.

Jan: I think this makes sense.
… Once we discuss with COGA, then it can go into the github ones stating which ones have been discussed and approved.

Lisa: This is not for editorial, it is for tracking github issues.

<lisa> issue tracking: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FkyRIP3CAuZ-JAazUOAUI64TYCrEfOkKSeBg94mMOkg/edit?resourcekey=0-HM4QyycKbkfCwWAXzIymrw&tab=t.0#heading=h.pg6umz602zd1

Lisa: We have another document with suggestions for patterns coming from this group - internal suggestions
… This is about suggestions from outside this group

<kirkwood> is this where we want to “make sure we are not missing anything”?

Lisa: This has a place for collecting suggestions and thoughts.

John K: Is this where we should make sure we are not missing anything?

Lisa: We want to do a review when we have the whole document in a new form.
… For example, with Findability, we may want to ensure it is covered well.

Rain: We are invited to this Thursday's community group meeting.
… They have prepared a document for us.
… This includes the gaps they see in the current document.
… This is 10 am Eastern time.

<Rain> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VsHS-oQDR7XY87E91sd-zqYaq8DCH9Ppwf9YeqCNcks/edit?tab%3Dt.aohwqsygorkh%23heading%3Dh.wx0q0lgy9s3i&sa=D&source=calendar&ust=1738980483897988&usg=AOvVaw2VWZBshptZSS9EiL6nhF37

Rain: that is the document they created.
… I did send out a calendar invite to some I felt were already interested.
… If anyone else would like to join, please let me know and I can add you to the invite.

Jeanne: I would like an invite.

Frankie: I don't see it in my inbox, but may not be able to attend.

Lisa: We also have the editor's call.

Julie: Rain - do you know if the COGA community group's feedback is in line with the structural group's feedback?

Rain: This is a much more thorough consideration of the design patterns which they feel is missing.
… This is about patterns specifically.

Lisa: I think we know what we need to do for the next week or 2.
… The other document - we only have 8 minutes.
… There are issues we need to address - we will go through those on another day.
… Now we will discuss the Issue Papers.
… There are new modules, and old issue papers will be referenced in a separate section.
… We can coordinate on an editor's call what is happening to get the next paper in.
… In the meantime I sent to the list introductions.
… We needed something before the modules - that introduces the concept to people.

<lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r2q_QQJEva8xb44BnTiFcczXNMN9N7jHQeOKd0KrqJY/edit?tab=t.0

Lisa: I sent some draft wording to this, and pasted the link here.
… I wrote information about other people who use the information.
… I am thinking about people writing research grants.
… Most of the next section is from the gaps analysis.
… I pointed them to Making Content Usable.
… I have explained a bit about the division - old modules and new modules
… and what is in each modules
… This includes the related user needs.
… Instead of just linking to the paper I put 2 sentence introduction to what it is.
… Then there is a little paragraph about the old issues - that we are not supporting them.
… We will need someone to do an editor's review.
… Does the content look ok if someone does that or do you want more time to look at it?

Frankie: I need more time.
… I plan to review tomorrow.

<lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r2q_QQJEva8xb44BnTiFcczXNMN9N7jHQeOKd0KrqJY/edit?tab=t.0

Lisa: Excellent. Feel free to add in comments.
… We will keep it on the agenda for people to approve it.
… It sounds like we do not have enough time to go through each paragraph.

John K: When do you want it reviewed by?

Lisa: Early next week.

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 242 (Fri Dec 20 18:32:17 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Maybe present: Frankie, Jeanne, Julie, Rain

All speakers: Frankie, Jan, Jeanne, Julie, Lisa, Rain

Active on IRC: Frankie, Jan, JeanneEC, Jennie_Delisi, julierawe, kirkwood, lisa, Rain