10:30:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
10:30:10 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-coga-irc
10:30:10 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
10:30:11 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
10:30:13 <lisa> clear q
10:30:17 <lisa> q?
10:30:25 <lisa> agenda+ scribe
10:32:03 <lisa> agenda+ actions see action page: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit?tab=t.0  timeline: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya
10:34:44 <lisa> agenda+ new intro for issue papers at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r2q_QQJEva8xb44BnTiFcczXNMN9N7jHQeOKd0KrqJY/edit?tab=t.0
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15:41:30 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-coga-irc
15:41:32 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:41:34 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:49:28 <lisa> q?
16:01:47 <Jennie_Delisi> Jennie_Delisi has joined #coga
16:02:16 <Jennie_Delisi> present+
16:02:22 <lisa> present+
16:02:27 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
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16:02:30 <julierawe> present+
16:02:36 <Rain> Rain has joined #coga
16:02:39 <JeanneEC> present+
16:02:46 <Jennie_Delisi> scribe+
16:03:04 <lisa> scribe+ Jennie_Delisi
16:03:06 <Frankie> Frankie has joined #coga
16:03:09 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:03:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-coga-minutes.html lisa
16:03:26 <lisa> next item
16:03:34 <lisa> close item 1
16:03:39 <lisa> next item
16:04:00 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: At the beginning of each month we will review schedules, what we are working on
16:04:08 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We will not do this weekly.
16:05:20 <Jennie_Delisi> ...1: next version of Making Content Usable
16:05:37 <Jennie_Delisi> ...2: Research papers - where we collect information to go into these documents.
16:05:46 <Jennie_Delisi> ...3: helping parent groups: APA and AG
16:06:15 <Jennie_Delisi> ...1: Making Content Usable work is focusing on new template
16:06:32 <kirkwood> present+
16:06:35 <Jennie_Delisi> ...plan is to make a version using new structure and template followed through for one objective
16:06:49 <Jennie_Delisi> ...This is to help people see if they like this before doing to much work.
16:07:41 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: We did try 1. Frankie also did one. There is also a 3rd. We just need 1 more subgroup meeting.
16:07:57 <Jennie_Delisi> ...The next subgroup  meeting is February 6th.
16:08:16 <Jennie_Delisi> ...By next Monday we should have 3 examples ready to review as a group.
16:08:27 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I will not be on the meeting, so I will coordinate with Frankie.
16:08:41 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Someone from the subgroup should be able to represent.
16:09:05 <Jennie_Delisi> (cannot hear Frankie)
16:09:42 <Frankie> My zoom will not unmute
16:10:11 <Frankie> I can meet Monday but not sure about this Thursday meeting
16:10:13 <Frankie> What time is the subgroup on Thursday?
16:10:25 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: 11 EST
16:10:40 <Frankie> Ok, I can do that time on Thursday too. All good!
16:10:41 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: I will coordinate with Frankie and the other subgroup members.
16:11:37 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: I have set things up so Rain can add in agenda items.
16:11:56 <Jennie_Delisi> ...The W3C calendars then automatically send emails.
16:12:05 <Jennie_Delisi> ...If anyone has trouble with these, please reach out.
16:12:28 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I will make a point to email to see if people are ok with the calendar.
16:13:06 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Assuming all goes well on Monday, then we need to move the rest of the patterns into the template - correct?
16:13:09 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: Yes.
16:13:41 <kirkwood> +1
16:13:46 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Suggestions - because of the amount of work we take a half a day and make a virtual face to face/ online meeting, with people who can help get things into the new template.
16:14:00 <kirkwood> yes
16:14:09 <Frankie> +1 to having a working session
16:14:11 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: I think that would be helpful once we align on the template.
16:14:42 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: I will add to the agenda for next week's meeting to set working meeting to finish this objective and draft.
16:15:07 <Jennie_Delisi> ...In the Github I think we will make a new folder with new templates.
16:15:32 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: We have a folder in Google Drive.
16:16:05 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: 1st part of the session (face to face) - getting things into the Google template. Afternoon - convert to working draft in Github in a new folder.
16:16:17 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Then people can help in the side that works best for them.
16:16:29 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Then by the end of the day we will have a pull request for the editor's draft.
16:16:34 <kirkwood> could you share access/location to drive folder?
16:16:51 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Do we know how we will handle internationalization in this next draft?
16:17:32 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We have a plan for getting from the template to an editor's draft.
16:17:46 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I want to know if there has been coordination with where internationalization will seit.
16:18:03 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: To my knowledge, that has not happened yet. I will reach out to Jan to get specifics.
16:18:25 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: The question is when does the integration need to happen (at the template stage) or after we see it? Will it be an editor's note?
16:18:36 <Jennie_Delisi> ...There should be at least a plan about what is happening.
16:19:18 <Jennie_Delisi> Frankie: I was filling out the first template update - some things occurred to me which will be helpful, but there has been lots of feedback.
16:19:35 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Personas should happen much later.
16:19:45 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We need to plan for this.
16:19:56 <Jennie_Delisi> Frankie: I am pretty sure there is a meeting on Wednesday. I will be at that too.
16:20:20 <Jennie_Delisi> ...this is the community group - where the feedback is which is being collected.
16:22:11 <Jan> Jan has joined #coga
16:22:16 <Jan> present+
16:22:38 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: We are hoping in the next 2 weeks to have a draft available for at least our review.
16:22:51 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Then collect the editorial items.
16:23:19 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Some things we need to do includes understanding how we will handle internationalization in this drft.
16:23:46 <Jennie_Delisi> Jan: We were going to try to present to this group.
16:23:54 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I think presenting to a smaller group of this group.
16:23:59 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We have been through all the patterns.
16:24:17 <Jennie_Delisi> ...1st pass is done regarding which have internationalization impact
16:24:28 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Maybe we can review this during the editor's call or another time?
16:25:07 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: For the editor's call this week maybe we can do a half hour on this, and half hour on the pull request?
16:25:32 <Jennie_Delisi> Jan: I think if we can review, then have a single statement saying it has been reviewed and we are working on updates pattern by pattern.
16:25:45 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Our draft is very general, and that may be sufficient.
16:25:51 <Jennie_Delisi> ...But I want you to look at it first.
16:26:02 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: We are only putting one objective's patterns in the first one.
16:26:15 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We could also flag those patterns in editor's note.
16:26:20 <Jennie_Delisi> Jan: OK
16:26:35 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: The other question - how to move forward with internationalization.
16:26:43 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We are not working on the next draft of personas.
16:26:55 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Let's focus on having the patterns the way we want them.
16:27:05 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We would want to publish as quickly as we can.
16:27:09 <Jennie_Delisi> Jan: I think that is fine.
16:27:42 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We didn't get deep into the personas because we needed to focus on a different topic about a concern someone raised on another topic.
16:27:53 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We can shift and just focus on pattern modification and recommendations.
16:27:59 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: It looks fantastic.
16:28:08 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Integrating it in is going to be a lot of work.
16:28:19 <Jennie_Delisi> John K: It was a lot of strong feelings around personas.
16:28:39 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Let's try to get the guidance out.
16:29:07 <julierawe> +1 to Jan
16:29:15 <Jennie_Delisi> Jan: I should be able to attend the editor's call
16:29:29 <julierawe> q+
16:29:45 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: it is about the feedback
16:29:50 <julierawe> q-
16:30:07 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: I think we have a plan for editor's notes - that should work well with what Rain is doing.
16:30:21 <Jennie_Delisi> Jan: I agree. We do have all of them reviewed, and items flagged.
16:30:35 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: If there are changes - we could start getting some initial feedback.
16:30:55 <julierawe> q+
16:31:18 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: I think there may be some feedback from the internationalization community group we could incorporate now.
16:31:47 <Jennie_Delisi> ...There are some small edits we could change so small phrases can be understood potentially by a larger group.
16:32:00 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Maybe.
16:32:32 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: the directions left and right may be inappropriate for vertical writing was flagged, for example.
16:32:50 <Jennie_Delisi> Jan: Exactly. I think some things need to come to COGA, and ensure everyone is ok with them.
16:33:03 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We have not yet gotten them reviewed by COGA.
16:33:11 <julierawe> q+
16:33:16 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I want to discuss from a process perspective, then get on the agenda for this meeting.
16:33:22 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: We can give part of the call to that.
16:33:27 <lisa> ack next
16:33:40 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: I would love to have at least some places we can say changes have been made based on this feedback.
16:33:48 <Jennie_Delisi> ...This would help build the relationship with them.
16:33:57 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Even if it is just one pattern. We can add an editor's note.
16:34:12 <Jennie_Delisi> ...asking for feedback. Other changes can say "will be made"
16:34:21 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Rain - which objective?
16:35:34 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: some agreed to review files related to mental health.
16:35:45 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: I finished one, and added changes re data loss.
16:35:54 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Assuming that looks ok...
16:36:01 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: I will also try to do reviews of that.
16:36:17 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I will accept that pull request, and then start a 2nd pull request
16:36:28 <Jennie_Delisi> ...The importance here: Frankie and Rain are putting things into a template.
16:36:38 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I'm not sure if they are taking material from the correct address.
16:36:47 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: Do you want us going through the open pull request?
16:37:03 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: We have to. I would like to get it done so that Thursday's mental health subgroup meeting with can work with Rashmi
16:37:13 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We can then make a 2nd pull request to fix things.
16:37:23 <Jennie_Delisi> ...The Frankie and Rain, later in the day, can use the latest work.
16:37:44 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: I will make it a priority to finish going through the files.
16:37:51 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I will try to get to that today or tomorrow.
16:37:59 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: I will try to do some more as well.
16:38:18 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I want to accept it and have a list of changes to go on.
16:38:35 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: I am looking at the raw git hack you created?
16:38:37 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: That is right.
16:38:46 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Rain and Frankie - where are you taking your content from?
16:39:01 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: we have been taking content from the current version of Making Content Usable
16:39:11 <Jennie_Delisi> ...If you can give the correct link of what we should use, we can switch to that.
16:39:24 <Jennie_Delisi> Frankie: I can double check that the wording I am using is current.
16:39:40 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Unfortunately, the new content is in the pull request. This has lots of changes.
16:39:49 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I think this is the latest link
16:39:56 <Jennie_Delisi> ...This is the main branch.
16:39:56 <lisa> https://w3c.github.io/coga/content-usable/
16:40:06 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: We won't be working until Thursday.
16:40:26 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Julie and I will try asynchronously to get the new IO version by Thursday, even though a paragraph will be missing.
16:40:36 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: I already found a file needing at least 3 changes.
16:40:50 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Maybe we can have a meeting on Wednesday with Rashmi. I will email Rashmi to check.
16:41:01 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: I might be available part of Wednesday morning.
16:41:18 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Then maybe we can do the changes together.
16:41:37 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: I will continue flagging the issues I note. This will help identify which files.
16:41:46 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: OK, we can go through the process together.
16:42:11 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Going back to the actions.
16:42:27 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Images?
16:42:42 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Will we have an editors' note where they will be?
16:42:44 <lisa> Q?
16:43:05 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: we were going to do reviews on what is missing, have we dealt with findability well...
16:43:12 <Jennie_Delisi> ....This will be moved to the next draft.
16:43:26 <Jennie_Delisi> ...The next iteration.
16:43:32 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Then we will have an editorial review.
16:43:50 <Jennie_Delisi> ....The suggestions from the structure subgroup and the internationalization subgroup are worth  mentioning.
16:44:14 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We have a document with issues from Github.
16:44:44 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We were thinking that instead of having so many documents related to the work needed that we would have a section called "feedback from other sources."
16:44:58 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Each has a table to contain their feedback.
16:45:19 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We could have a link to each spreadsheet, then when we have a discussion, we add it to this document
16:45:27 <kirkwood> could you put link in while talking about it?
16:45:30 <Jennie_Delisi> ...That was my proposal.
16:45:48 <Jennie_Delisi> ...There are some which will turn into big discussions.
16:45:54 <Jennie_Delisi> Jan: I think this makes sense.
16:46:15 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Once we discuss with COGA, then it can go into the github ones stating which ones have been discussed and approved.
16:46:26 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: This is not for editorial, it is for tracking github issues.
16:46:55 <lisa> issue tracking: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FkyRIP3CAuZ-JAazUOAUI64TYCrEfOkKSeBg94mMOkg/edit?resourcekey=0-HM4QyycKbkfCwWAXzIymrw&tab=t.0#heading=h.pg6umz602zd1
16:47:17 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We have another document with suggestions for patterns coming from this group - internal suggestions
16:47:26 <Jennie_Delisi> ...This is about suggestions from outside this group
16:47:26 <kirkwood> is this where we want to “make sure we are not missing anything”?
16:48:08 <Jennie_Delisi> ...This has a place for collecting suggestions and thoughts.
16:48:45 <Jennie_Delisi> John K: Is this where we should make sure we are not missing anything?
16:49:22 <Rain> q+
16:49:24 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: We want to do a review when we have the whole document in a new form.
16:49:40 <Jennie_Delisi> ...For example, with Findability, we may want to ensure it is covered well.
16:49:48 <lisa> ack next
16:49:57 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: We are invited to this Thursday's community group meeting.
16:50:02 <Jennie_Delisi> ...They have prepared a document for us.
16:50:10 <Jennie_Delisi> ...This includes the gaps they see in the current document.
16:50:18 <Jennie_Delisi> ...This is 10 am Eastern time.
16:50:22 <Rain> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VsHS-oQDR7XY87E91sd-zqYaq8DCH9Ppwf9YeqCNcks/edit?tab%3Dt.aohwqsygorkh%23heading%3Dh.wx0q0lgy9s3i&sa=D&source=calendar&ust=1738980483897988&usg=AOvVaw2VWZBshptZSS9EiL6nhF37
16:50:31 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: that is the document they created.
16:50:51 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I did send out a calendar invite to some I felt were already interested.
16:51:14 <Jennie_Delisi> ...If anyone else would like to join, please let me know and I can add you to the invite.
16:51:20 <julierawe> q+
16:51:24 <Jennie_Delisi> Jeanne: I would like an invite.
16:51:37 <Jennie_Delisi> Frankie: I don't see it in my inbox, but may not be able to attend.
16:51:46 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: We also have the editor's call.
16:51:53 <Jennie_Delisi> q?
16:52:05 <lisa> ack next
16:52:26 <Jennie_Delisi> Julie: Rain - do you know if the COGA community group's feedback is in line with the structural group's feedback?
16:52:58 <Jennie_Delisi> Rain: This is a much more thorough consideration of the design patterns which they feel is missing.
16:53:16 <Jennie_Delisi> ...This is about patterns specifically.
16:53:35 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: I think we know what we need to do for the next week or 2.
16:53:51 <Jennie_Delisi> ...The other document - we only have 8 minutes.
16:54:08 <Jennie_Delisi> ...There are issues we need to address - we will go through those on another day.
16:54:17 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Now we will discuss the Issue Papers.
16:54:36 <Jennie_Delisi> ...There are new modules, and old issue papers will be referenced in a separate section.
16:54:50 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We can coordinate on an editor's call what is happening to get the next paper in.
16:54:59 <Jennie_Delisi> ...In the meantime I sent to the list introductions.
16:55:16 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We needed something before the modules - that introduces the concept to people.
16:55:20 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r2q_QQJEva8xb44BnTiFcczXNMN9N7jHQeOKd0KrqJY/edit?tab=t.0
16:55:27 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I sent some draft wording to this, and pasted the link here.
16:56:11 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I wrote information about other people who use the information.
16:56:36 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I am thinking about people writing research grants.
16:56:48 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Most of the next section is from the gaps analysis.
16:57:07 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I pointed them to Making Content Usable.
16:57:23 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I have explained a bit about the division - old modules and new modules
16:57:31 <Jennie_Delisi> ...and what is in each modules
16:57:41 <Jennie_Delisi> ...This includes the related user needs.
16:57:55 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Instead of just linking to the paper I put 2 sentence introduction to what it is.
16:58:18 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Then there is a little paragraph about the old issues - that we are not supporting them.
16:58:34 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We will need someone to do an editor's review.
16:58:48 <Jennie_Delisi> ...Does the content look ok if someone does that or do you want more time to look at it?
16:58:54 <Jennie_Delisi> Frankie: I need more time.
16:59:01 <Jennie_Delisi> ...I plan to review tomorrow.
16:59:01 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r2q_QQJEva8xb44BnTiFcczXNMN9N7jHQeOKd0KrqJY/edit?tab=t.0
16:59:08 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Excellent. Feel free to add in comments.
16:59:24 <Jennie_Delisi> ...We will keep it on the agenda for people to approve it.
16:59:35 <Jennie_Delisi> ...It sounds like we do not have enough time to go through each paragraph.
16:59:42 <Jennie_Delisi> John K: When do you want it reviewed by?
17:00:00 <Jennie_Delisi> Lisa: Early next week.
17:00:01 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
17:00:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-coga-minutes.html lisa
17:00:17 <Jennie_Delisi> * Apologies - have to drop. Have a good week!