Meeting minutes
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Calendar
<https: //www.w3.org/events/meetings/0e4ea52b-ee35-44da-aec7-22160a58aa3a/#next>
<https: //docs.google.com/document/d/1xnoNFwfjJZbfadFiU-qOW49n4-gODbd_4ff5UDyYFTM/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.z4jafdjuv6sd>
proposal 11
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Lisa We discussed last week about adding user needs to the issue papers
Lisa We talked more in the editors call on Thursday and agreed that it was a good idea to add user needs
Lisa To keep it simple, we will add a section called User Needs and fill it with the user needs we know already
Lisa We'll include an editors note asking for comments to see if readers want a section like this
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Rain I don't have an update yet on whether the coga community has updates on the user needs
Rain Kiki is preparing the community to present to us
Rain I expect to hear soon when Kiki and a community rep want to present to COGA
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Rain There is a call later this week
Rain We'll have the revised template ready to try out on the call later this week
Rain I'll send an email reminder to everyone today or tomorrow about the meeting
Rain This will be the Thursday subgroup meeting
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Lisa We also have Rashmi's mental health meeting and an editors call on Thursday before Rain's meeting
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Lisa W3C is changing the way we schedule meetings
https://
Lisa Does anyone have problems with the calendar system?
?+
Lisa I don't know yet how to add events to the calendar
Lisa I'll add events for the subgroups
Lisa Do people want me to add the subgroups to the W3C calendar?
Lisa Is it OK if I make a generic subgroup calendar event and people have to look at the subgroup page to know which subgroup is meeting that day?
julie: 1. old call info page is going away :( need to use w3c calander
Julie: find it confucing
to add events or join
2: i want to know what the group is each week - at least name of the subgroup meeting
lisa: list as the agenda?
Rain: i change the color if they are my subgroup
Rain On my calendar I change the color of the subgroup meetings for the ones that I need to be ready for and attentive to
Rain I think there is a benefit to finding a way to know which subgroup is meeting when
Rain The subgroup schedule — groups might switch, so there can be variability there
Rain I can imagine that it would get out of date if we try to schedule specific subgroup meetings instead of just on the wiki
Rain The other option is to make it more regular. Right now it's based on availability. If we shifted it to every subgroup meets every three weeks. maybe it would be easier to know which group is going when
Lisa Maybe if we have a list in the calendar invite or a link to the wiki page that says which groups are meeting when
<Rain> +1 to a Google calendar
Lisa We could keep the google calendar invites and have it link to the W3C calendar
https://
Lisa With this new system, we could make a similar page—the problem is you have to log in
Lisa Wherever we put the zoom information, people will have to log in
tiffanyburtin I block off my Thursdays on my calendar because I forget which subgroups are meeting on which Thursdays
tiffanyburtin But that leads to overwhelm so I'd like an easy link to which subgroups are meeting when
Lisa We send emails as well
Lisa We want to add a Thursday subgroup event to the W3C calendar
Lisa I will also send an email to see if anyone has trouble logging in
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wcag is working out how to get the rest of wcag 3 drafted
deviding the work into topics or paths
we want one coga person at least per path
prefer one main rep and more as participents to take a look at the draft and flag issues
we are all feeling streched
jan 21 deadline for sign ing up
sign up via survey
how long is this?
first draft is 6 month
julie: coga perspective will be good
in each path
Rain In terms of whether someone is a COGA rep or a COGA participant, how is that being determined?
julie: participent meens that you wont need to go every week
try and reduce the stress
can also do it asyncronosly
lisa: what do we have so far
tiffanyburtin I can help coordinate, but I can't be the main rep for any groups
Lisa People can be quite active and also meeting a meeting
Lisa We can see what we've got
Lisa It's better to have people participate
rashmi I can participate asynchronously
rashmi Time zones make it hard
rashmi I can work on help and errors and structure and cognitive support
rashmi Mental health should also be included
Lisa Cognitive support includes mental health support
<tiffanyburtin> I can set up the COGA Slack channel again. For some reason it disappeared. I can also create sub groups to have an easy quick conversation method to coordinate attendance.
Resharing the google doc: https://
Fill in this google doc so COGA members can see where there are gaps
also fill in survey
DavidSwallow I could be on interaction and AT support
Please fill in this AG survey by January 21st: https://
The survey asks for times you're available to meet
Lisa We need more COGA participation but it's looking good
Lisa We can also point the groups to COGA patterns that we've already done
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close item 6
Lisa Jan not here so moving on to the next agenda item
Lisa Proposal 11 has changed a lot and no longer what the group approved, so we're bringing it back for approval
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rashmi Proposal 11 is "Make links and controls labeling explicit"
rashmi The yellow highlighting shows what has changed
Labels, linked text and accessible names for links and controls are easy to understand, clear and unambiguous.
Text labels are visible, unless a ubiquitous, commonly known icon is used.
The relationship between controls and their label should be clear.
rashmi We also added three paragraphs at the end of "How it helps" section:
Links and controls should have clear visible labels. Note that labels can be available through a personalization setting. However, if controls are not common or their usage is not completely clear, we recommend clear, unambiguous, and visible labels that are clearly associated with the controls. For example, a page may have multiple search options
for different regions.Providing clear, unique and visible labels help users in knowing the purpose of different search options.
Navigational elements should be easy to understand without needing to guess. Making the text of hyperlinks as clear as possible also reduces cognitive load. This helps many groups including people with cognitive and mental health impairments.
For example a person living with SMI (Severe Mental Illness) and Schizophrenia is using a mental health app to track their mood and help them live independently. The lack of labels and clear link text makes them anxious about what they are pressing. They stop using the app as it makes them feel worse.
rashmi We added one more item to the "Use" section: Links and controls that have properly associated, clear, unambiguous, visible labels.
rashmi We also add one more item to the "Avoid" section: Lack of labels and clear link text.
Lisa Is it enough to have an explanation of what the different icons are? Is that enough?
Lisa Saying "text labels are visible" but sometimes you're introducing a new icon
Lisa Are we OK to say this as a requirement when we don't know it's always true?
Lisa Is this widely appropriate? "Text labels are visible, unless a ubiquitous, commonly known icon is used."
Rain What's written here would be difficult to explain
Rain I think we need a clear rubric for when a text label is required and when is an icon OK
Rain What are the factors you can use to make the decision? A rubric that would help explain what is meant by "ubiquitous, commonly known icon"
Rain A shopping cart may be known in some countries but not others
Rain A magnifying glass may be consistently used for search
Rain We could be more actionable if we say "Here's when you can use an icon if an explanation can't be provided"
Jan Apologies for late arrival
Jan This is a broader issue that is going to affect a lot of disabilities
Jan For example, someone who uses text to speech
Jan Providing a tooltip helps with lots of disabilities, not just cognitive
Lisa It does say labels should have accessible names
Lisa What I'm hearing is there is no consensus on this draft
Lisa Sounds like we're not close to consensus. We really need to define when text labels need to be visible
rashmi It is quite tricky
Lisa1 We need to do a call to brainstorm and draft it
Lisa1 When we have everyone agree on the draft, then we'll bring it back to full COGA for approval
Lisa1 Jan, do you want to talk about internationalization?
Jan Quick update: We are meeting with the community group this Wednesday
<Lisa1> close item 7
Jan We're going to focus on looking at the personas and getting a first pass on those
Jan We did finish going over all the success criteria
Jan In early February we could do a more detailed review in this meeting
Jan In the interim, we do have all the feedback in the spreadsheet and we could look at it in the editor's call
Jan By "success criteria," I mean the "patterns"
Jan I can't attend next Monday's meeting but can discuss this Thursday at the editor's call
Lisa1 We'll talk more on Thursday, maybe 1st hour will be mental health pull request and issues papers and the second hour can be internationalization feedback
Jan I can only do 9am on Thursday
Lisa1 Next week is Martin Luther King Day in the US. Who is able to make the call?
Not me
<DavidSwallow> UK here, I can.
<Jan> Next week's call - I will show up if I can get out of my client meeting, but will be late.
<tiffanyburtin> I got kicked off. I may miss next Monday due to a health procedure. I'm unsure.
Lisa1 We need to schedule a separate call to redraft Proposal 11 about making links and labels explicit
Who can attend COGA meeting on Monday, which is Martin Luther King Day?
<julierawe> -1
<tiffanyburtin> 0
DavidSwallow +1
Jan Will try but will be late on Monday
<tiffanyburtin> Links and Labels - yes depending on when the call is
<Rain> -1 to Monday
Lisa1 Not sure if we'll have quorum. I'll email the list and see if anyone can join.
Jan If there is no meeting on Monday, maybe that's a time when you and I can connect about the internationalization feedback
Lisa1 We can try to see if we can do it on Thursday
Lisa1 We can try to talk about internationalization feedback at Thursday's editors call and if not, maybe Lisa and Jan can discuss on Monday/Martin Luther King Day