Meeting minutes
Review agenda and next meeting dates
https://
Matt_King: We're just talking about things that are currently in test today
Matt_King: Requests for changes to agenda?
Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll stick with the agenda as planned
Matt_King: Next Community Group Meeting: Thursday January 9
Matt_King: (I'm having scheduling challenges for next week, and it's the final week of the year that PAC will be available.)
IsaDC: So we will leave radio for next year?
Matt_King: I would like to get radio in today.
Matt_King: Next AT Driver Subgroup meeting: Monday January 13
Current status
Matt_King: We currently have three things in "draft review"
Matt_King: Hopefully by the end of this meeting, one of those (navigation menu button) will be out of review
Matt_King: One we have currently listed in "refactor" is the next radio group plan
Matt_King: We talked about my feedback in our meeting on Tuesday, IsaDC. Is it ready to merge?
IsaDC: There were some issues that I fixed, but there were other issues that I couldn't fix because of how NVDA behaves with up and down arrows
Matt_King: I thought we agreed that it would be the same as the other plan
IsaDC: That's right
Matt_King: You can merge that, then
IsaDC: Will do
howard-e: After IsaDC merges the pull request, I will run the script to pull it into the system
Matt_King: Yesterday, we met with Vispero. They approved the toggle button and are about the approve the "color viewer slider" plan
Matt_King: That is coming, hopefully by the end of the week
Matt_King: They are also double-checking on radio group--they have a lot of failures there, so they want to be sure that all the failures are related to bugs
Matt_King: That's potentially two more approved by Vispero at the end of this year
Matt_King: I think we've closed all of Apple's issues on those, as well, so hopefully we secure their approval, too
Matt_King: So we have a number of approvals by screen readers going up here, which is awesome
Matt_King: It could be possible that we end the year with a total of 14 things all the way through the "draft" phase and into "candidate"
Matt_King: I'm still hopeful that there will be a handful that make it all the way through the process
Matt_King: We might get four or five to "recommended" and another nine in "candidate review". That would be a wonderful way to end the year
Testing navigation menu button
Matt_King: I believe there were nine conflicts this morning, but now there are eight
Matt_King: The JAWS results conflict page is here: https://
Matt_King: The conflicts are in test 3 and test 6
hadi: I didn't look into the details. I always copy the output from the JAWS history. I'm pretty sure about the responses, but maybe I mislabeled the check boxes...
Matt_King: The difference in test 3, for output, is that IsaDC has the word "collapsed" in her output, and you do not
Matt_King: This is so easy to get confused because JAWS does exactly the same output for three out of the four commands, but it's slightly different for one of them
Matt_King: It matters what mode you're in. You get the word "collapsed" if you're in virtual cursor mode, but you don't if you're in forms mode
hadi: I was careful, but of course it's possible I made that mistake
IsaDC: Also please maximize the window with the test. Chrome has recently started doing something odd if the window is not maximized
Matt_King: This is test 3, using "insert+up arrow" with the virtual cursor active
hadi: I re-tested 3 and it does indeed say "collapsed" (it automatically changed to the wrong mode). I've updated my results
hadi: I will look into the other conflicts immediately following this meeting
IsaDC: You can always e-mail me with questions!
Testing for remaining link plans
Matt_King: It looks like dean isn't quite done
dean: I'm having an issue with the "down arrow" key
dean: I'm using a borrowed PC, so I don't know if there's a strange setting there
dean: Once I figure that out, I just have one test left to run
dean: The final conflict comes from the AT response. The output I observed matches the output reported by the bot. The other tester reported different output
Matt_King: Tell me more about the "down arrow" problem. Which test is that?
dean: Test 1, "navigating forward to a link"
dean: It's from "request information about the link"
dean: If I recall correctly, "insert+up arrow" jumped to the top of the page. I would have to try again to verify
Matt_King: Are you using a laptop keyboard?
dean: I'm looking at the laptop keyboard right now, and the "up arrow" says "page up" next to it. I need to figure out how to turn that off
dean: I need to meddle with the settings and figure out how to turn off "page up" when you press the "up arrow" (and "page down" when you press the "down arrow")
dean: This is a Lenovo Yoga
Matt_King: My Lenovo that I have year (it's not a Yoga) has a "page up" and "page down" key which is separate
Matt_King: To find out what NVDA is receiving by default, turn on NVDA then press "insert + 1" so that NVDA will tell you what it receives
dean: For what it's worth, the NVDA Bot is reporting a blank AT response
Matt_King: When you press "insert + tab", are you getting the correct output?
dean: Yes
Matt_King: Then the "insert" key is doing the right thing
Matt_King: Oh, when I run this test with NDVA, it says blank! Unbelievable!
IsaDC: We also have conflicts with "down arrow" in browse mode
IsaDC: In test 1
dean: Many times, I have run a test without being signed in
dean: I have only learned that I was not signed in when I was ready to submit my results, but at that point, the system would not accept my results
dean: So I had to sign in and start from scratch
Matt_King: Testing without being logged in is an intentional feature because it lets interested parties explore
Matt_King: But we should make a user's "logged out" status more clear to help prevent confusion like dean's
howard-e: I will track that feature with an issue in the ARIA-AT App project
Matt_King: we need to get people assigned to Radio for VoiceOver and NVDA
Matt_King: But lets see if there's anything else to wrap up on links before moving on the radio
dean: I will test VoiceOver (I forgot that had been assigned to me)
Matt_King: Dean has done all three, and Luke has done two of the three
IsaDC: Luke has done them, but I didn't press "save". I just pressed "save"
IsaDC: dean, to avoid any doubt: you have "link example 2" and "link example 3" for NVDA and VoiceOver
Radio group
Matt_King: We have more testing to do here
Matt_King: dean, do you have more time in the coming week? The next meeting isn't until January, but I'm hoping we can get "radio" done before the end of the year
dean: I will have both "link example" tests done with VoiceOver by the end of next week
IsaDC: I'm available for all three "radio"
Hadi: I will have some time
dean: And I can cover NVDA. The only issue there is that we've been having conflicts. That's why I've recommended we have three testers for NVDA
hadi: I have time between Christmas and New Year's, so I would be glad to take on some work there
Matt_King: If you want to take the "radio group" plan with JAWS, I can assign that to you right now
hadi: Sure!
Matt_King: Great! You are now assigned to "radio group with roving tab index" using JAWS
IsaDC: Can you assign me, as well?
Matt_King: Sure--all set
Matt_King: With NVDA and VoiceOver. The bot still isn't done, and I assigned them at the beginning of this meeting. They still say "queued".
howard-e: I think the UI may have timed out because I see that it is completed
Joe_Humbert: I just refreshed 30 seconds ago, and I see that both bots have completed all 15 tests
Joe_Humbert: I can do VoiceOver with the radio test plan
Joe_Humbert: If you need me to do any other test plans, I'm happy to do them for NVDA or VoiceOver
IsaDC: Thank you, Joe_Humbert
Joe_Humbert: Should we hold off on updating to the latest release of macOS?
Matt_King: I am usually forced to update...
Joe_Humbert: Version 15.2 just released
IsaDC: I am already using that
dean: I'm on 15.1
dean: ...and it doesn't say that I have any updates due
Matt_King: My computer is nudging me to perform an update
Joe_Humbert: It sounds like it's okay for me to update
Matt_King: I don't see the "Manage bot run" button
IsaDC: It's present for me
Matt_King: Oh, is it in the last column? I think it used to be in the "status" column. Ah, there it is
Joe_Humbert: Just let me know if I need to do any link tests
IsaDC: I think we're covered there
Matt_King: That's it! Thanks for the help, everyone, and happy new year!