W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group Weekly Teleconference

04 December 2024

Attendees

Present
dean, howard-e, IsaDC, jugglinmike, Matt_King, mfairchild
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
jugglinmike, howard-e

Meeting minutes

Review agenda and next meeting dates

Matt_King: [Call for change to agenda]

IsaDC: Would like to discuss 1167 and 1168

Matt_King: Okay will discuss. We'll meet on 12th depending availability

Matt_King: Mike stepped away but we'll want to double if the automation meeting on the 9th is still being kept

Tests in review

Matt_King: We'll miss the goal of having 10 plans. Still optimistic to have a todo list for vispero and for apple. I'm optimistic because we've closed a lot of reviews since the feedback and hoping a few plans will be recommended by the end of the month. Not sure how much that will be but doing really well in terms of getting more plans in review.

We now have 9 of the 10 of the old ones now in candidate review

Matt_King: When the Navigation Button plan is done, we will have 11 in candidate review

Matt_King: IsaDc, do we have radio button ready?

IsaDC: We will as soon as we get the scripts running. They seem to be broken but we're working on it

Four refactored plans in draft review

Matt_King: Okay, thought we would have for today. That means we have 3 plans ready for Draft Review

Matt_King: The radio group example using roving tabindex will not be ready. That needs to be updated

Matt_King: So for some reason, the scripts for roving tabindex aren't working

IsaDC: Right, also not working for the previous version but trying to get them fixed as soon as we can

Matt_King: So the other radio group plan and the vertical slider is still in refactor and not yet ready for people to test

Testing navigation menu button

Matt_King: So you said there are 2 issues there IsaDC?

IsaDC: Yes, conflicts with JAWS and Chrome

Matt_King: You've raised issues it sounds like? Should we go to the issues or the conflicts page?

Matt_King: Let's go to w3c/aria-at#1167

Github: w3c/aria-at#1167

Matt_King: Okay so this is for test 6

IsaDC: Yes, the output is different

Matt_King: Yes, I see there are 2 different outputs

IsaDC: Yes. Hadi couldn't make it and sends his regards

Matt_King: Let's try to reproduce this. The output is so different though and makes me wonder if there was an accidental key press

Matt_King: Hadi seems to match the name of the menu

Matt_King: I can't tell if double speech is happening with how the issue is written

IsaDC: Yes, he's got double speech and seems to repeat the WAI ARIA menu

IsaDC: Could we get another person to also test?

Matt_King: Do we have the version?

howard-e: There is the JAWS version at the top

IsaDC: Well that should be the minimum version. I can run as Hadi and see what was being used

IsaDC: He was using 2024.2409 ...

IsaDC: Will check my version

Matt_King: The output I get is the name of the menu, "WAI ARIA Quick Links Menu Home page"

Matt_King: If I do INS+Up, I get "W3C Home Page Menu" and I think the word menu there is a bug

Matt_King: Well I'm not using default. But it still says it in a different order for me

Matt_King: But I get output closer to IsaDC

IsaDC: I'm running the same version as Hadi

Matt_King: I'm on 2024.2406

Matt_King: I have a suspicion Hadi got an error there. If he's done the other tests, this is all we need to resolve?

IsaDC: Yes

Matt_King: I think Hadi's system config may be slightly different

IsaDC: I wonder if his window was slightly smaller

Github: w3c/aria-at#1168

Github: w3c/aria-at#1167

Inconsistent Results in Test 3: 'Request Information About a Menu Button' (Navigation Menu Button, V24.10.12)

github: w3c/aria-at#1168

Matt_King: I don't get the state announced with "insert+tab". I do get it announced with "insert+up"

Matt_King: That's interesting!

Matt_King: I'm using JAWS 2024.2406. That's one version shy of the latest version

IsaDC: I think that matches my results

Matt_King: That was with the virtual cursor active. If I make the PC cursor active, in forms mode, the state is never announced with either key

Matt_King: So, in my experience, the only time you get the state is with the virtual cursor active and when using "insert+up"

IsaDC: I also observe the state being read when I use "insert+up" in test three

IsaDC: We don't have any issues with "insert+tab". It's just with "insert+up"

Matt_King: I have a feeling that Hadi may have recorded the "insert+up" response with the wrong cursor active. It's just so easy to get this mixed up because you have different outputs for the different modes.

Matt_King: So that's the only thing standing in the way of getting "navigation menu button" into "candidate review", right?

IsaDC: There are other conflicts, but Hadi's responses match my own, so I don't know if he's having trouble with the app or with his computer

Matt_King: Since he wasn't able to attend today, you might have to have a one-on-one meeting with him

IsaDC: Yeah, we can do that if he's available

Testing for remaining link and radio plans

Matt_King: Let's add these new plans to the queue

Matt_King: Dean, are you available to do some tests on the "link" test plans? They are very short plans; I think they only have three tests

IsaDC: You could probably do two in half an hour or so

dean: Sounds good!

dean: I can do both VoiceOver and NVDA

Matt_King: That would be awesome

Matt_King: There are no JAWS testers other than IsaDC present on the call today.

IsaDC: I've scheduled test plan runs for the NVDA Bot and the VoiceOver Bot

Matt_King: I think the only active testers with JAWS are IsaDC, Matt_King, Luke, and Hadi. Alyssa hasn't been around for a while and neither has Murray

IsaDC: I miss them!

Matt_King: Yeah

Matt_King: That makes it increasingly important for me to recruit new JAWS testers

Matt_King: I have a little bit of an inroad. Meta had a meeting with the National Federation of the Blind. The incoming president of that federation was pretty keen to learn about ARIA-AT. I asked if they could help support by bringing people into the project, and he seemed excited about that idea

Matt_King: That might be a great way for us to bring in some interested new people. And that would mean it would be really good for us to have a nice approach for onboarding. If any of the current membership wants to help with that, that could be really good

Matt_King: We have a "getting started" section in the wiki, now. We could check if there are more things we could add. Recent discussions come to mind, like the difference between "base output" and "hints", but also topics like getting set up with defaults

Matt_King: Anyway, dean, do you know how fast you could get that work done?

dean: I should be able to get it done by next meeting

IsaDC: Thank you! We appreciate it

Matt_King: Could Luke at PAC do the other half for those--NVDA and VoiceOver?

IsaDC: I could do JAWS, and Luke could do all three screen readers--that would give me time to get to the radio plan.

Matt_King: If we can get these "link" plans and also the "radio" plans by the end of the year, that would be great. That might be a tight deadline for the radio plans, but if we get all that done, that would get us up to 14 test plans in candidate review (or potentially fewer if we could move some of those on to "recommended")

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 238 (Fri Oct 18 20:51:13 2024 UTC).

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All speakers: dean, howard-e, IsaDC, Matt_King

Active on IRC: howard-e, jugglinmike