18:04:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-at
18:04:52 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/12/04-aria-at-irc
18:04:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
18:04:53 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jugglinmike
18:05:08 <jugglinmike> meeting: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group Weekly Teleconference
18:05:16 <jugglinmike> present+ jugglinmike
18:05:18 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
18:05:23 <jugglinmike> present+ dean
18:05:25 <jugglinmike> present+ howard-e
18:05:31 <jugglinmike> present+ IsaDC
18:05:52 <jugglinmike> present+ mfairchild
18:08:03 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria-at
18:08:13 <jugglinmike> present+ Matt_King
18:11:06 <jugglinmike> Topic: Review agenda and next meeting dates
18:13:01 <jugglinmike> scribe+ howard-e
18:14:17 <howard-e> Matt_King: [Call for change to agenda]
18:14:33 <howard-e> IsaDC: Would like to discuss 1167 and 1168
18:15:04 <howard-e> Matt_King: Okay will discuss. We'll meet on 12th depending availability
18:15:19 <howard-e> Matt_King: Mike stepped away but we'll want to double if the automation meeting on the 9th is still being kept
18:17:21 <howard-e> Topic: Tests in review
18:17:48 <howard-e> Matt_King: We'll miss the goal of having 10 plans. Still optimistic to have a todo list for vispero and for apple. I'm optimistic because we've closed a lot of reviews since the feedback and hoping a few plans will be recommended by the end of the month. Not sure how much that will be but doing really well in terms of getting more plans in review.
18:17:49 <howard-e> We now have 9 of the 10 of the old ones now in candidate review
18:18:29 <howard-e> Matt_King: When the Navigation Button plan is done, we will have 11 in candidate review
18:19:03 <howard-e> Matt_King: IsaDc, do we have radio button ready?
18:19:29 <howard-e> IsaDC: We will as soon as we get the scripts running. They seem to be broken but we're working on it
18:20:04 <howard-e> Topic: Four refactored plans in draft review
18:20:10 <howard-e> Matt_King: Okay, thought we would have for today. That means we have 3 plans ready for Draft Review
18:20:27 <howard-e> Matt_King: The radio group example using roving tabindex will not be ready. That needs to be updated
18:20:55 <howard-e> Matt_King: So for some reason, the scripts for roving tabindex aren't working
18:21:11 <howard-e> IsaDC: Right, also not working for the previous version but trying to get them fixed as soon as we can
18:21:52 <howard-e> Matt_King: So the other radio group plan and the vertical slider is still in refactor and not yet ready for people to test
18:22:10 <howard-e> Topic: Testing navigation menu button
18:22:21 <howard-e> Matt_King: So you said there are 2 issues there IsaDC?
18:22:37 <howard-e> IsaDC: Yes, conflicts with JAWS and Chrome
18:23:32 <howard-e> Matt_King: You've raised issues it sounds like? Should we go to the issues or the conflicts page?
18:24:02 <howard-e> Matt_King: Let's go to https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1167
18:24:15 <howard-e> Github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1167
18:24:30 <howard-e> Matt_King: Okay so this is for test 6
18:24:49 <howard-e> IsaDC: Yes, the output is different
18:25:20 <howard-e> Matt_King: Yes, I see there are 2 different outputs
18:25:35 <howard-e> IsaDC: Yes. Hadi couldn't make it and sends his regards
18:26:01 <howard-e> Matt_King: Let's try to reproduce this. The output is so different though and makes me wonder if there was an accidental key press
18:26:14 <howard-e> Matt_King: Hadi seems to match the name of the menu
18:26:27 <howard-e> Matt_King: I can't tell if double speech is happening with how the issue is written
18:26:59 <howard-e> IsaDC: Yes, he's got double speech and seems to repeat the WAI ARIA menu
18:27:11 <howard-e> IsaDC: Could we get another person to also test?
18:28:02 <howard-e> Matt_King: Do we have the version?
18:28:14 <howard-e> howard-e: There is the JAWS version at the top
18:28:28 <howard-e> IsaDC: Well that should be the minimum version. I can run as Hadi and see what was being used
18:29:11 <howard-e> IsaDC: He was using 2024.2409 ...
18:29:22 <howard-e> IsaDC: Will check my version
18:29:46 <howard-e> Matt_King: The output I get is the name of the menu, "WAI ARIA Quick Links Menu Home page"
18:30:18 <howard-e> Matt_King: If I do INS+Up, I get "W3C Home Page Menu" and I think the word menu there is a bug
18:31:06 <howard-e> Matt_King: Well I'm not using default. But it still says it in a different order for me
18:31:20 <howard-e> Matt_King: But I get output closer to IsaDC
18:31:28 <howard-e> IsaDC: I'm running the same version as Hadi
18:31:44 <howard-e> Matt_King: I'm on 2024.2406
18:32:17 <howard-e> Matt_King: I have a suspicion Hadi got an error there. If he's done the other tests, this is all we need to resolve?
18:32:23 <howard-e> IsaDC: Yes
18:33:17 <howard-e> Matt_King: I think Hadi's system config may be slightly different
18:33:31 <howard-e> IsaDC: I wonder if his window was slightly smaller
18:34:21 <howard-e> Github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1168
18:34:57 <howard-e> Github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1167
18:35:55 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
18:36:54 <jugglinmike> subtopic: Inconsistent Results in Test 3: 'Request Information About a Menu Button' (Navigation Menu Button, V24.10.12)
18:36:59 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1168
18:38:52 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I don't get the state announced with "insert+tab". I do get it announced with "insert+up"
18:39:00 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That's interesting!
18:39:21 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'm using JAWS 2024.2406. That's one version shy of the latest version
18:39:34 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: I think that matches my results
18:40:10 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That was with the virtual cursor active. If I make the PC cursor active, in forms mode, the state is never announced with either key
18:40:30 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: So, in my experience, the only time you get the state is with the virtual cursor active and when using "insert+up"
18:41:04 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: I also observe the state being read when I use "insert+up" in test three
18:41:29 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: We don't have any issues with "insert+tab". It's just with "insert+up"
18:42:10 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: I have a feeling that Hadi may have recorded the "insert+up" response with the wrong cursor active. It's just so easy to get this mixed up because you have different outputs for the different modes.
18:42:17 <jugglinmike> s/IsaDC/Matt_King/
18:43:03 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: So that's the only thing standing in the way of getting "navigation menu button" into "candidate review", right?
18:43:44 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: There are other conflicts, but Hadi's responses match my own, so I don't know if he's having trouble with the app or with his computer
18:43:58 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Since he wasn't able to attend today, you might have to have a one-on-one meeting with him
18:44:06 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: Yeah, we can do that if he's available
18:44:23 <jugglinmike> Topic: Testing for remaining link and radio plans
18:44:32 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Lets add these new plans to the queue
18:44:41 <jugglinmike> s/Lets/Let's/
18:45:24 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Dean, are you available to do some tests on the "link" test plans? They are very short plans; I think they only have three tests
18:45:38 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: You could probably do two in half an hour or so
18:45:45 <jugglinmike> dean: Sounds good!
18:45:54 <jugglinmike> dean: I can do both VoiceOver and NVDA
18:46:02 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That would be awesome
18:46:52 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: There are no JAWS testers other than IsaDC present on the call today.
18:48:12 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: I've scheduled test plan runs for the NVDA Bot and the VoiceOver Bot
18:49:43 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think the only active testers with JAWS are IsaDC, Matt_King, Luke, and Hadi. Alyssa hasn't been around for a while and neither has Murray
18:49:49 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: I miss them!
18:49:52 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Yeah
18:50:09 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That makes it increasingly important for me to recruit new JAWS testers
18:51:07 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I have a little bit of an inroad. Meta had a meeting with the National Federation of the Blind. The incoming president of that federation was pretty keen to learn about ARIA-AT. I asked if they could help support by bringing people into the project, and he seemed excited about that idea
18:51:47 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That might be a great way for us to bring in some interested new people. And that would mean it would be really good for us to have a nice approach for onboarding. If any of the current membership wants to help with that, that could be really good
18:52:33 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We have a "getting started" section in the wiki, now. We could check if there are more things we could add. Recent discussions come to mind, like the difference between "base output" and "hints", but also topics like getting set up with defaults
18:52:50 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Anyway, dean, do you know how fast you could get that work done?
18:52:57 <jugglinmike> dean: I should be able to get it done by next meeting
18:53:04 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: Thank you! We appreciate it
18:53:21 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Could Luke at PAC do the other half for those--NVDA and VoiceOver?
18:53:56 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: I could do JAWS, and Luke could do all three screen readers--that would give you time to get to the radio plan.
18:54:09 <jugglinmike> s/give you/give me/
18:57:11 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: If we can get these "link" plans and also the "radio" plans by the end of the year, that would be great. That might be a tight deadline for the radio plans, but if we get all that done, that would get us up to 14 test plans in candidate review (or potentially fewer if we could move some of those on to "recommended")
18:57:20 <jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting
18:57:20 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, dean, howard-e, IsaDC, mfairchild, Matt_King
18:57:22 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:57:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/04-aria-at-minutes.html Zakim
18:57:30 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
18:57:30 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-at
18:57:44 <jugglinmike> RRSAgent, leave
18:57:44 <RRSAgent> I see no action items