W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

28 November 2024

Attendees

Present
addison, Atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, Richard
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
Bert

Meeting minutes

Agenda Review

Action Items

<addison> #147

<gb> Action 147 Follow up on normativity warnings about glossary (on aphillips)

<addison> #146

<gb> Action 146 create new calendar entry for I18N+CSS (on aphillips) due 2024-11-28

<addison> #145

<gb> Action 145 publish timezone for wide review (on aphillips) due 2024-11-28

addison: Published.

<addison> #144

<gb> Action 144 remind everyone to read the language negotiation article (on aphillips) due 2024-11-28

<addison> #143

<gb> Action 143 make comments on the encoding issue attached to i18n-activity#1940 (on aphillips) due 2024-11-28

<addison> #142

<gb> Action 142 check if we can publish the new version of jlreq (on himorin) due 2024-11-21

<addison> #141

<gb> Action 141 set up IETF reviews requested by mnot@ et al (on xfq) due 2024-11-14

atsushi: Re #142, I found an issue.

addison: I saw John Klensin said something, related to #141

<addison> #127

<gb> Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

addison: Will talk with Ben Allen Monday

<addison> #125

<gb> Action 125 propose creating a UTR for text-emphasis skip if we can get help with maintain (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

addison: Pending on CSS call

<addison> #114

<gb> Action 114 read through i18n-activity#1659 and report on whether we're satisfied (on r12a) due 2024-08-22

r12a: Not yet

<addison> #90

<gb> Action 90 steal some of henri's text from scroll-to-text-fragment for string-search (on aphillips) due 2024-04-18

<addison> #89

<gb> Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on xfq) due 2024-04-18

xfq: No progress

<addison> #8

<gb> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023

<addison> #7

<gb> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

addison: One on device posture done

<addison> #4

<gb> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023

Info Share

xfq: What do you want to do with the timezone doc? Announce on Mastodon, Bluesky?

addison: I'll send you draft text.

RADAR Review

<addison> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

Pending Issue Review

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending

<addison> #1948

<gb> Issue 1948 not found

<addison> i18n-activity#1948

<gb> Issue 1948 Constency between `historyRedo` and `historyUndo` (by aphillips) [pending] [s:input-events] [non-I18N]

addison: Editorial

<addison> i18n-activity#1947

<gb> Issue 1947 typos on `insertTranspose` (by aphillips) [pending] [s:input-events] [needs-resolution]

addison: It reads strangely. Editorial, but it is i18n.

<addison> i18n-activity#1946

<gb> Issue 1946 "temporal" confusing in `kill buffer` (by aphillips) [pending] [s:input-events] [non-I18N]

addison: #1946 maybe not i18n-related

<gb> Issue 1946 not found

vertical list article

<r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-upright-counters-in-vertical.html

r12a: I made a few changes already.
… The Japanese folks are concerned about two things:
… The example at top left with a dot next to the number isn't properly centered, and it's not a common approach.
… I might take out the dotted decimal option.
… They pointed out they have a different way of formatting counters, with an opening parenthesis that's lying down, an upright number, and another horizontal paren.
… Don't know how to do that, and what to do with longer lists?
… It' s mixing directions within the marker.

addison: Do they never use the dotted decimal?

r12a: In horizontal text they do. Fuqiao and I have seen it in other languages in vertical, but Japanese may not use it.
… I chose the dot to make it clear that the marker is horizontal text in a vertical list.

atsushi: From japanese PoV, it is uncommon to combine numbers with affix, such as brackets.
… Number would be in @@yoko.

<atsushi> https://www.toyobijutsu-prt.co.jp/com-design/dtp-63/

atsushi: This styling of combining dot and number into one character is uncommon, at least in vertical text.

<atsushi> http://www.otegarushuppan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/tate1-2.gif

addison: So Richard will make some edits to the article?

<r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-upright-counters-in-vertical.html

r12a: If you have more examples with counters, send them to me!

atsushi: Next Tuesday meeting could discuss it and find examples.

r12a: text-combine-upright property has ana 'all' value, but als a 'digits' value. That might do what we need with the upright digits and horizontal parens.

atsushi: The bracket is a single character and only the number is @@.

r12a: Yes, and you can do that in normal text, but can you do it inside a marker?

atsushi: Combining everything into a single character looks strange.

addison: Will you look for examples?

I18N Glossary status

<addison> Guide#269

<gb> Issue 269 Make I18N Glossary definitions okay in normative blocks (by aphillips)

<addison> w3c/i18n-actions#147

<gb> Action 147 Follow up on normativity warnings about glossary (on aphillips)

addison: I talked with plh, see in the action ^^
… I should file an issue on the guide.
… And make the i18n glossary an exception to the normativity rules.
… Nigel Megitt said the glossary could instead be normative.
… We might update the glossary maybe twice a year.

xfq: Our definitions are mostly descriptive.

addison: We do send people to our glossary if they want to know how something works.
… It's not specific enough for compliance testing.

r12a: People will be better off copying the text into their spec, if they need a normative def, so that it doesn't change.

addison: A draft that linked to our ‘grapheme cluster’ gets a ReSpec warning, because the term is not normatively defined.

r12a: Grapheme cluster is an interesting case. If they used it a few years ago, their spec should continue with the defintion of that time.

addison: Our definition doesn't define the grapheme cluster boundary.

r12a: Maybe point to Unicode.

addison: We want people to have the right term and not make up a new definition.

xfq: Agree that people should be able to refer to informative definitions like ours.
… For normative refs, they can refer to Infra or Unicode.

Language Negotiation article

<addison> w3c/i18n-drafts#581

<gb> Pull Request 581 Initial work on language-negotiation materials (by aphillips)

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/581/files?short_path=7aef4dd#diff-7aef4dd22d30f6ded58eb6eb22421d27f49dbe36c5fc03a27352050d52590dab

xfq: I looked at the new pull request. Looks better.
… It resolved my comments.

addison: One more week, so you all can read it?

AOB?

<r12a> https://w3c.social/@webi18n/113560294149211974

r12a: I checked for 'text-combine-upright: digits': not (yet) supported in browsers. But an interesting lead.
… xfq noticed that Safari now supports Mongolian. That makes it work in all the browsers.

<xfq> o/

<r12a> https://bsky.app/profile/webi18n.bsky.social

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 238 (Fri Oct 18 20:51:13 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

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Maybe present: r12a, xfq

All speakers: addison, atsushi, r12a, xfq

Active on IRC: addison, atsushi, Bert, r12a, xfq