W3C

– DRAFT –
Open UI Telecon

21 November 2024

Attendees

Present
bkardell_, dbaron, gregwhitworth, masonf, sarah
Regrets
-
Chair
Greg Whitworth
Scribe
gregwhitworth

Meeting minutes

Design System Update

https://github.com/openui/design-system/blob/main/readme.md

<jarhar> gregwhitworth: two weeks ago someone who contributes to drupal wanted to reach out to me. drpual wants to adopt our design stuff. told them we need a pipeline and an rfc. on tuesday we had a kickoff, hid wasn't able to make it. brian was able to make it. i just want to let people know that the readme is updated, like lets make sure to call out that

<jarhar> this isn't a standard. important for yall to know.

<jarhar> gregwhitworth: key projects for context is brad giving us a im going to throw out a random number, mvp for an alpha release in q3 2025 would be x components

<jarhar> gregwhitworth: some components we would never put in html and thats ok

<jarhar> gregwhitworth: we may end up with 4 tabs, thats ok

<jarhar> gregwhitworth: we'll iterate on that. let yall know that theres movement happening in that repo. similar to when we started openui, just starting to land things so we can get moving

<jarhar> gregwhitworth: key issues we will bring back into this world

<jarhar> gregwhitworth: any questions?

<jarhar> gregwhitworth: mason since its importnat to outline what its not, skim it and let me know feedback is appreciated

<jarhar> masonf: i wanted to bring up - are we having a meeting next week?

<jarhar> gregwhitworth: no

github-bot, take up openui/open-ui#1117

select: clarifying what should be used as the chosen value

<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://github.com/openui/open-ui/issues/1117.

scottohara: Just added a comment to the issue

scottohara: Aaron being the angel and Sarah being the devil on the other we discussed what solution would be

scottohara: for a quick refresher we were not sure what to do when someone has a select that has content within its button part and is a sibling to the selectedcontent element but wants to be fully in charge

scottohara: in the issue, we are proposing the following steps to acquire a value

scottohara: reads out proposal here: openui/open-ui#1117 (comment)

scottohara: If aria-valuetext is present on select element, use the attribute’s value, including the empty string

scottohara: 2. Else if there is a button part, calculate the value from the contents of the button part, including the empty string

scottohara: this was added because of the feedback that they may not use the selectedcontent element at all

scottohara: or concat a string value so we added this in to cover those usecases. They may have a button that is empty and they want no value read out

3. If the select element does not have an aria-valuetext attribute and does not contain a button part, then the value is calculated from the name of the selected option element.

scottohara: I added this in here because this is how it seems to work right now

scottohara: there is no pruning of the text as it's just pulling in the content of the option element

scottohara: the positive of this is that it covers the usecases discussed but have a simpler approach

scottohara: the con of this is that using anything that is rendered within the button part is that we can have content that they don't want used as their exposed value (eg: unicode character, mistakenly putting their label in the button part vs label)

scottohara: we should encourage people to NOT do this

scottohara: that's the summary

scottohara: am I missing any usecases?

masonf: It seems reasonable and covers the usecases and it mirrors what users see if they're sighted user

masonf: we're not talking about the value in IDL but the the accessibility value

scottohara: correct

<Zakim> masonf, you wanted to react to a previous speaker

jarhar: I'm supportive and happy to resolve on this

jarhar: I'm curious about what authors should do when they want to build some things

jarhar: this valuetext thing is meant to be something they can control but...

jarhar: I made a quick tweak to a demo and if I don't have any text in the button part and when you click on it you get more content I should add some JS to keep the ariatext value up to date what it should really be, is that correct?

masonf: can you use alt text?

scottohara: the aria-label could be on the SVG and that would be carried over

scottohara: I've worked with devs where that's not possible

scottohara: if they can't this would be another way to do this if they can't

scottohara: you can change the name of this thing but we don't have any mechanism to change what the value is

scottohara: I presented another example using the emoji example and the level of effort needed to be an emoji but say "smile" versus nothing or duplicate value, etc

scottohara: it's far more complex than aria-label on the option and this could make it so that the ariatext could be copied over from the option

scottohara: we're going to ignore the aria attributes on the button part and selectedcontent element as they don't exist as nodes in the a11y tree

<masonf> gregwhitworth: does this apply outside of select?

scottohara: yeah, there is another issue in ARIA to use this outside of this and we'll discuss that again

<masonf> scottohara: yeah, there's another issue in ARIA to expand the role of valuetext.

scottohara: we wanted to make sure to not block this

Proposed Resolution: Value computed as follows: 1. ) If aria-valuetext is present on select element, use the attribute’s value, including the empty string 2.) Else if there is a button part, calculate the value from the contents of the button part, including the empty string 3.) If the select element does not have an aria-valuetext attribute and does not contain a button part, then the value is calculated from the name of the selected

option element.

aaron: what was the usecase for #2?

sarah: say you have something for multi-select and you select multiple values that are displayed as tags that are outside of the button that toggles the popup and you don't want to go into the dropdown and find it

sarah: now that I'm saying that, we normally clear the examples

scottohara: in that same kind of examples there are a bunch of examples across Microsoft where a button part opened a listbox of options and the button had no visible content and we needed something

scottohara: combobox invoking element that doesn't need to have a visible text string and it will need a name but the value will be exposed elsewhere

sarah: the "add more people" is done somewhere else and you don't want to put them into the button

Proposed Resolution: Accessible value presented to the user is computed as follows: 1. ) If aria-valuetext is present on select element, use the attribute’s value, including the empty string 2.) Else if there is a button part, calculate the value from the contents of the button part, including the empty string 3.) If the select element does not have an aria-valuetext attribute and does not contain a button part, then the value is

calculated from the name of the selected

<masonf> proposed resolution: adopt the behavior described in openui/open-ui#1117 (comment)

<masonf> +1

<bkardell_> +1

<sarah> +1

RESOLUTION: adopt the behavior described in openui/open-ui#1117 (comment)

Summary of resolutions

  1. adopt the behavior described in openui/open-ui#1117 (comment)
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 238 (Fri Oct 18 20:51:13 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Maybe present: aaron, jarhar, scottohara

All speakers: aaron, jarhar, masonf, sarah, scottohara

Active on IRC: bkardell_, dbaron, gregwhitworth, jarhar, masonf, sarah