18:57:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #openui
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19:00:03 <gregwhitworth> Zakim, start meeting
19:00:03 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
19:00:05 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), gregwhitworth
19:00:09 <gregwhitworth> meeting: Open UI Telecon
19:00:10 <bkardell_> bkardell_ has joined #openui
19:00:12 <gregwhitworth> chair: Greg Whitworth
19:00:15 <gregwhitworth> present+
19:00:23 <masonf> present+
19:01:10 <bkardell_> present+
19:01:29 <jarhar> jarhar has joined #openui
19:02:21 <gregwhitworth> Topic: Design System Update
19:03:45 <gregwhitworth> https://github.com/openui/design-system/blob/main/readme.md
19:03:50 <jarhar> gregwhitworth: two weeks ago someone who contributes to drupal wanted to reach out to me. drpual wants to adopt our design stuff. told them we need a pipeline and an rfc. on tuesday we had a kickoff, hid wasn't able to make it. brian was able to make it. i just want to let people know that the readme is updated, like lets make sure to call out that
19:03:50 <jarhar> this isn't a standard. important for yall to know.
19:04:10 <jarhar> gregwhitworth: key projects for context is brad giving us a im going to throw out a random number, mvp for an alpha release in q3 2025 would be x components
19:04:18 <jarhar> gregwhitworth: some components we would never put in html and thats ok
19:04:23 <jarhar> gregwhitworth: we may end up with 4 tabs, thats ok
19:04:43 <jarhar> gregwhitworth: we'll iterate on that. let yall know that theres movement happening in that repo. similar to when we started openui, just starting to land things so we can get moving
19:04:54 <jarhar> gregwhitworth: key issues we will bring back into this world
19:04:57 <jarhar> gregwhitworth: any questions?
19:05:22 <jarhar> gregwhitworth: mason since its importnat to outline what its not, skim it and let me know feedback is appreciated
19:05:39 <jarhar> masonf: i wanted to bring up - are we having a meeting next week?
19:05:40 <jarhar> gregwhitworth: no
19:05:49 <gregwhitworth> github-bot, take up https://github.com/openui/open-ui/issues/1117
19:05:49 <github-bot> Topic: select: clarifying what should be used as the chosen value
19:05:49 <github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://github.com/openui/open-ui/issues/1117.
19:06:15 <gregwhitworth> scribenick: gregwhitworth
19:06:32 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: Just added a comment to the issue
19:06:57 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: Aaron being the angel and Sarah being the devil on the other we discussed what solution would be
19:07:42 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: for a quick refresher we were not sure what to do when someone has a select that has content within its button part and is a sibling to the selectedcontent element but wants to be fully in charge
19:08:00 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: in the issue, we are proposing the following steps to acquire a value
19:08:02 <masonf> qq+
19:08:39 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: reads out proposal here: https://github.com/openui/open-ui/issues/1117#issuecomment-2492045184
19:09:02 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: If aria-valuetext is present on select element, use the attribute’s value, including the empty string
19:09:15 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: 2. Else if there is a button part, calculate the value from the contents of the button part, including the empty string
19:09:34 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: this was added because of the feedback that they may not use the selectedcontent element at all
19:10:00 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: or concat a string value so we added this in to cover those usecases. They may have a button that is empty and they want no value read out
19:10:10 <gregwhitworth> 3. If the select element does not have an aria-valuetext attribute and does not contain a button part, then the value is calculated from the name of the selected option element.
19:10:24 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: I added this in here because this is how it seems to work right now
19:10:44 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: there is no pruning of the text as it's just pulling in the content of the option element
19:11:06 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: the positive of this is that it covers the usecases discussed but have a simpler approach
19:11:58 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: the con of this is that using anything that is rendered within the button part is that we can have content that they don't want used as their exposed value (eg: unicode character, mistakenly putting their label in the button part vs label)
19:12:11 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: we should encourage people to NOT do this
19:12:20 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: that's the summary
19:12:40 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: am I missing any usecases?
19:13:05 <gregwhitworth> masonf: It seems reasonable and covers the usecases and it mirrors what users see if they're sighted user
19:13:09 <sarah> sarah has joined #openui
19:13:14 <sarah> present+
19:13:21 <gregwhitworth> masonf: we're not talking about the value in IDL but the the accessibility value
19:13:29 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: correct
19:13:35 <gregwhitworth> ack masonf
19:13:35 <Zakim> masonf, you wanted to react to a previous speaker
19:14:00 <gregwhitworth> jarhar: I'm supportive and happy to resolve on this
19:14:14 <gregwhitworth> jarhar: I'm curious about what authors should do when they want to build some things
19:14:30 <gregwhitworth> jarhar: this valuetext thing is meant to be something they can control but...
19:15:09 <gregwhitworth> jarhar: I made a quick tweak to a demo and if I don't have any text in the button part and when you click on it you get more content I should add some JS to keep the ariatext value up to date what it should really be, is that correct?
19:15:15 <gregwhitworth> masonf: can you use alt text?
19:15:28 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: the aria-label could be on the SVG and that would be carried over
19:15:40 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: I've worked with devs where that's not possible
19:15:53 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: if they can't this would be another way to do this if they can't
19:16:11 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: you can change the name of this thing but we don't have any mechanism to change what the value is
19:16:50 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: I presented another example using the emoji example and the level of effort needed to be an emoji but say "smile" versus nothing or duplicate value, etc
19:17:17 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: it's far more complex than aria-label on the option and this could make it so that the ariatext could be copied over from the option
19:17:18 <gregwhitworth> q+
19:17:48 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: we're going to ignore the aria attributes on the button part and selectedcontent element as they don't exist as nodes in the a11y tree
19:18:03 <masonf> gregwhitworth: does this apply outside of select?
19:18:05 <gregwhitworth> ack gregwhitworth
19:18:32 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: yeah, there is another issue in ARIA to use this outside of this and we'll discuss that again
19:18:32 <masonf> scottohara: yeah, there's another issue in ARIA to expand the role of valuetext.
19:18:44 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: we wanted to make sure to not block this
19:19:38 <gregwhitworth> Proposed Resolution: Value computed as follows: 1. ) If aria-valuetext is present on select element, use the attribute’s value, including the empty string 2.) Else if there is a button part, calculate the value from the contents of the button part, including the empty string 3.) If the select element does not have an aria-valuetext attribute and does not contain a button part, then the value is calculated from the name of the selected
19:19:38 <gregwhitworth> option element.
19:19:49 <gregwhitworth> aaron: what was the usecase for #2?
19:20:28 <gregwhitworth> sarah: say you have something for multi-select and you select multiple values that are displayed as tags that are outside of the button that toggles the popup and you don't want to go into the dropdown and find it
19:20:48 <gregwhitworth> sarah: now that I'm saying that, we normally clear the examples
19:21:34 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: in that same kind of examples there are a bunch of examples across Microsoft where a button part opened a listbox of options and the button had no visible content and we needed something
19:22:19 <gregwhitworth> scottohara: combobox invoking element that doesn't need to have a visible text string and it will need a name but the value will be exposed elsewhere
19:22:36 <gregwhitworth> sarah: the "add more people" is done somewhere else and you don't want to put them into the button
19:23:39 <gregwhitworth> Proposed Resolution: Accessible value presented to the user is computed as follows: 1. ) If aria-valuetext is present on select element, use the attribute’s value, including the empty string 2.) Else if there is a button part, calculate the value from the contents of the button part, including the empty string 3.) If the select element does not have an aria-valuetext attribute and does not contain a button part, then the value is
19:23:39 <gregwhitworth> calculated from the name of the selected
19:23:40 <masonf> proposed resolution: adopt the behavior described in https://github.com/openui/open-ui/issues/1117#issuecomment-2492045184
19:24:28 <masonf> +1
19:24:32 <bkardell_> +1
19:24:39 <sarah> +1
19:24:51 <gregwhitworth> RESOLVED: adopt the behavior described in https://github.com/openui/open-ui/issues/1117#issuecomment-2492045184
19:25:55 <gregwhitworth> Zakim, end meeting
19:25:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been gregwhitworth, masonf, bkardell_, sarah
19:25:58 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
19:25:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/21-openui-minutes.html Zakim
19:26:06 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, gregwhitworth; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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19:26:24 <dbaron> Present+
19:26:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/21-openui-minutes.html dbaron