W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

07 November 2024

Attendees

Present
Addison, Atsushi, Ben, Bert, Fuqiao, r12a
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
Bert

Meeting minutes

Agenda Review

Action Items

<addison> #140

<gb> Action 140 reply to specdev 145 including proposal discussed in telecon (on aphillips) due 2024-11-07

<addison> close #140

<gb> Closed issue #140

<addison> #139

<gb> Action 139 review old timezone note to ensure all content is present and accounted for (on aphillips) due 2024-11-07

addison: I did #140, but no reply yet.

<addison> #138

<gb> Action 138 add text to the issue templates to clarify what to use when (on xfq) due 2024-11-07

addison: Will keep #139 open.

<addison> #135

xfq: #138 still pending

<gb> Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17

<addison> #134

<gb> Action 134 file an issue about making input respect locale (on aphillips) due 2024-10-05

addison: 135 still pending, nbut will get done.

<addison> #128

addison: #134 started, but not finished

<gb> Action 128 perform review of issues for inclusion in specdev (on xfq) due 2024-09-30

xfq: Looked at the list, but didn't see anything to add to specdev

<addison> close #128

<gb> Closed issue #128

<addison> #127

<gb> Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

addison: #127 pending

<addison> #125

<gb> Action 125 propose creating a UTR for text-emphasis skip if we can get help with maintain (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

addison: We have an upcoming call with CSS for #125, but I may not be able to join.
… May have to be an email.

<addison> #114

<gb> Action 114 read through i18n-activity#1659 and report on whether we're satisfied (on r12a) due 2024-08-22

r12a: No progress on #114

<addison> #90

<gb> Action 90 steal some of henri's text from scroll-to-text-fragment for string-search (on aphillips) due 2024-04-18

<addison> #89

addison: I have a PR open and is on the agenda today.

<gb> Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on xfq) due 2024-04-18

<addison> #33

<gb> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)

xfq: No progress on darkmode.

<addison> #8

<gb> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023

addison: I'll see where they moved this

<addison> #7

<gb> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

addison: I closed one issue. We'll see when we look at the radar.

<addison> https://www.w3.org/PM/horizontal/

<addison> #4

<gb> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023

addison: If you look at the horizontal tracker in github, it is blank, but the link above won't be.

Info Share

addison: I may not be there next week, but will prepare. And xfq may have to chair.

<xfq> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ietf-w3c/2024Oct/0001.html

xfq: Mark Notttingham and Ted HArdie mentioned this ^^ and ask for input.
… About IDNA and Unicode subset.

addison: Do you want to set something up, make an issue?

xfq: Will do.

ACTION: xfq: set up IETF reviews requested by mnot@ et al

<gb> Created action #141

RADAR Review

<addison> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

addison: New incoming request for DAPT.

xfq: I can take a look.

atsushi: Probably didn't change much from last year.

atsushi: No issues from then are still open.

atsushi: On PiP, I found no issues. Can move to completed.

addison: Vision for W3C also completed without issues.

Pending Issue Review

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending

addison: A couple tracker ones, will skip over for now.

<addison> i18n-activity#1935

<gb> Issue 1935 Unicode identifiers in the WAT format (by xfq) [pending] [s:wasm-core] [t:markup_identifiers]

xfq: Web Assembly has a binary format and a text format.
… In the text format, identifers only can be ASCII.
… They have a proposal to allow escapes to have Unicode characters.
… My question is why they need escapes, and cannot use characters directly.
… Most people use tools to make WebAssembly, but some people may need to edit WebAssembly directly.
… Also: Proposed for version 3, but why not in version 2?

addison: Weird to have escapes, it makes it unreadable.
… I think the encoding is UTF-8, isn't it? And they allow strings in UTF-8.
… I would probably point them at XML Names.
… Or indeed ASCII only.
… Will the tools make identifiers from tokens?
… What do they want to do?

xfq: Escaping is unreadable.

<addison> See: https://github.com/unicode-org/message-format-wg/blob/main/spec/message.abnf for an example of a language adding it using XML-Name related restrictions

addison: It's pointless. Why add that feature?

addison: And if they add it in WASM3, will that create backwards compat problems? Should they not add it to WASM2?

xfq: I think they already supports any text in the text format, but browsers only support the binary format at the moment.

<addison> i18n-activity#1931

<gb> Issue 1931 `Get Title` doesn't have language/direction metadata (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [t:bidi_strings] [t:lang_strings] [wg:fedid] [s:fedcm]

addison: FedCM is Federated Credential Management.
… If you have credentials on a site, you can show them in a browser dialog.
… This issue is about getting the title of the dialog.

<xfq> +1

<atsushi> +1

addison: There is no language metadata.

<addison> i18n-activity#1930

<Bert> +1

<gb> Issue 1930 Allowances for language negotiation (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [t:lang_negotiation] [wg:fedid] [s:fedcm]

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1929

<gb> Issue 1929 Fields `name` and `given_name` have unclear usage (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [t:bidi_strings] [t:lang_strings] [t:loc_names] [wg:fedid] [s:fedcm]

addison: No support for language negotiation when getting client metadata.

addison: Unclear what the usage of these names is. The example sets both Name and Given_name to "Johnny". What should happen?

xfq: Are these fields optional?

addison: No, I don't believe they are.

xfq: We should ask about the intention, indeed.

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1928

<gb> Issue 1928 `IdentityProviderBranding` field `name` should provide lang and direction (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [t:bidi_strings] [t:lang_strings] [wg:fedid] [s:fedcm]

addison: IdentityProviderBranding is a string, but has no language metadata.

String-Search PR

<addison> w3c/string-search#23

<gb> Pull Request 23 Address I18N-ACTION-90 by adding text from scroll-to-text-fragment#233 (by aphillips)

addison: I saw xfq did a review

addison: I'll address those comment and push a new draft. Thoughts?

Specdev PRs

<addison> w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#146

<gb> Pull Request 146 Fix examples (by aphillips)

addison: I fixed a bunch of examples.

<addison> https://deploy-preview-146--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#sec-dir-example

xfq: Yes, the incorrect example is now clearly labeled.

r12a: give the table some more space in the first column?

addison: There is a second change.

<addison> https://deploy-preview-146--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#example-3

addison: Just above example 3
… It shows that LRM doesn't fix things the way that DIR does.

<addison> w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#142

<gb> Pull Request 142 Add a note about EGCs (by aphillips)

addison: We talked about this previously. Not 100% sure about the beauty of this.

<addison> https://deploy-preview-142--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#characters

addison: It starts 2 paras before the green box.
… the bulk is in the green box.

r12a: You have an empty <em> element, and @@
… I wouldn't say UNicode provides several definition.
… CAn just say "provides a definition"
… Sounds like there are alternatives, but there aren't really.
… You say later on which is the one we're really talking about.

addison: Trying to avoid adding another blue example.

r12a: Maybe add semicolon and add glyphs. And break the line before "Unicode splits..."
… It is useful to have that green box.

addison: xfq, you had some traffic with Anne van Kesteren about IDNA?

<addison> https://deploy-preview-128--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#idn

addison: You proposed ^^

<xfq> w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#128 (comment)

<gb> Pull Request 128 New section about IDNs (by xfq) [Best Practice] [normative]

xfq: My text in this PR does not explain the differences between IDNA2008, IDNA2003, and between them and the URL spec.

addison: You added useful links.

xfq: IDNA2008 will refuse symbols.

addison: Unicode UTS46.
… Whether following UTS36 is good I don't know.
… It is clear than nobody should use IDNA2003.
… But what is best between the others?

<addison> annevk said in part: "For specifications dealing directly with domains we'd want them to reuse https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#host-parsing."

addison: Maybe take Anne's comment.

xfq: I can do another integration.

addison: That host parsing section seems a good place to point to.

xfq: I suggested section 3.3, which is specifically about parsing domain names.

AOB?

Summary of action items

  1. xfq: set up IETF reviews requested by mnot@ et al
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 238 (Fri Oct 18 20:51:13 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/chnage/change

Succeeded: s/this/IDNA/

Maybe present: xfq

All speakers: addison, atsushi, r12a, xfq

Active on IRC: addison, atsushi, Bert, r12a, xfq