14:43:05 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 14:43:10 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-i18n-irc 14:43:21 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b7edae68-f52c-4aab-a1a6-3c37459e0786/20241107T150000/ 14:43:21 clear agenda 14:43:21 agenda+ Agenda Review 14:43:21 agenda+ Action Items 14:43:24 agenda+ Info Share 14:43:26 agenda+ RADAR Review 14:43:28 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 14:43:31 agenda+ DAPT Review 14:43:31 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 14:43:33 agenda+ WebAssembly Review 14:43:35 agenda+ String-Search PR 14:43:36 Chair: Addison Phillips 14:43:38 agenda+ Specdev PRs 14:43:40 agenda+ AOB? 14:43:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:54:09 present+ Addison 14:59:08 atsushi has joined #i18n 15:01:37 present+ 15:03:05 present+ 15:03:07 scribe+ 15:03:18 present+ Fuqiao, Atsushi 15:03:28 zakim, take up agendum 1 15:03:28 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:03:30 agenda? 15:04:18 zakim, take up agendum 2 15:04:18 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:04:34 #140 15:04:34 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/140 -> Action 140 reply to specdev 145 including proposal discussed in telecon (on aphillips) due 2024-11-07 15:05:05 close #140 15:05:06 Closed -> issue #140 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/140 15:05:08 #139 15:05:08 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/139 -> Action 139 review old timezone note to ensure all content is present and accounted for (on aphillips) due 2024-11-07 15:05:18 addison: I did #140, but no reply yet. 15:05:26 #138 15:05:26 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/138 -> Action 138 add text to the issue templates to clarify what to use when (on xfq) due 2024-11-07 15:05:36 ... Will keep #139 open. 15:05:46 #135 15:05:46 xfq: #138 still pending 15:05:46 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135 -> Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17 15:05:55 #134 15:05:56 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/134 -> Action 134 file an issue about making input respect locale (on aphillips) due 2024-10-05 15:05:57 addison: 135 still pending, nbut will get done. 15:06:09 #128 15:06:10 ... #134 started, but not finished 15:06:10 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/128 -> Action 128 perform review of issues for inclusion in specdev (on xfq) due 2024-09-30 15:06:43 xfq: Looked at the list, but didn't see anything to add to specdev 15:06:51 close #128 15:06:53 Closed -> issue #128 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/128 15:06:55 #127 15:06:56 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/127 -> Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30 15:07:02 addison: #127 pending 15:07:03 #125 15:07:04 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/125 -> Action 125 propose creating a UTR for text-emphasis skip if we can get help with maintain (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30 15:07:36 ... We have an upcoming call with CSS for #125, but I may not be able to join. 15:07:44 ... May have to be an email. 15:07:44 #114 15:07:45 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/114 -> Action 114 read through i18n-activity#1659 and report on whether we're satisfied (on r12a) due 2024-08-22 15:08:05 r12a: No progress on #114 15:08:06 #90 15:08:07 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/90 -> Action 90 steal some of henri's text from scroll-to-text-fragment for string-search (on aphillips) due 2024-04-18 15:08:21 #89 15:08:21 addison: I have a PR open and is on the agenda today. 15:08:21 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/89 -> Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on xfq) due 2024-04-18 15:08:30 #33 15:08:30 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips) 15:08:35 xfq: No progress on darkmode. 15:08:52 #8 15:08:53 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8 -> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 15:09:31 addison: I'll see where they moved this 15:09:32 #7 15:09:32 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023 15:10:26 addison: I closed one issue. We'll see when we look at the radar. 15:10:39 https://www.w3.org/PM/horizontal/ 15:11:09 #4 15:11:10 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023 15:11:21 ... If you look at the horizontal tracker in github, it is blank, but the link above won't be. 15:11:23 zakim, take up agendum 3 15:11:23 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:12:17 addison: I may not be there next week, but will prepare. And xfq may have to chair. 15:13:04 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ietf-w3c/2024Oct/0001.html 15:13:37 xfq: Mark Notttingham and Ted HArdie mentioned this ^^ and ask for input. 15:14:33 ... About IDNA and Unicode subset. 15:15:01 addison: Do you want to set something up, make an issue? 15:15:06 xfq: Will do. 15:15:26 action: xfq: set up IETF reviews requested by mnot@ et al 15:15:33 Created -> action #141 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/141 15:15:46 zakim, take up agendum 4 15:15:46 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:15:53 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1 15:16:23 addison: New incoming request for DAPT. 15:16:43 xfq: I can take a look. 15:16:58 atsushi: Probably didn't chnage much from last year. 15:17:10 s/chnage/change 15:17:45 atsushi: No issues from then are still open. 15:18:21 atsushi: On PiP, I found no issues. Can move to completed. 15:19:33 addison: Vision for W3C also completed without issues. 15:19:55 zakim, take up agendum 5 15:19:55 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:20:10 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending 15:20:46 addison: A couple tracker ones, will skip over for now. 15:20:47 i18n-activity#1935 15:20:47 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1935 -> Issue 1935 Unicode identifiers in the WAT format (by xfq) [pending] [s:wasm-core] [t:markup_identifiers] 15:21:22 xfq: Web Assembly has a binary format and a text format. 15:21:36 ... In the text format, identifers only can be ASCII. 15:22:01 ... They have a proposal to allow escapes to have Unicode characters. 15:22:12 q+ 15:22:27 ... My question is why they need escapes, and cannot use characters directly. 15:23:03 ... Most people use tools to make WebAssembly, but some people may need to edit WebAssembly directly. 15:23:09 ack next 15:23:23 ... Also: Proposed for version 3, but why not in version 2? 15:23:45 addison: Weird to have escapes, it makes it unreadable. 15:24:08 ... I think the encoding is UTF-8, isn't it? And they allow strings in UTF-8. 15:24:28 ... I would probably point them at XML Names. 15:24:41 ... Or indeed ASCII only. 15:25:07 ... Will the tools make identifiers from tokens? 15:25:20 ... What do they want to do? 15:25:51 xfq: Escaping is unreadable. 15:26:03 See: https://github.com/unicode-org/message-format-wg/blob/main/spec/message.abnf for an example of a language adding it using XML-Name related restrictions 15:26:06 addison: It's pointless. Why add that feature? 15:27:10 addison: And if they add it in WASM3, will that create backwards compat problems? Should they not add it to WASM2? 15:27:56 xfq: I think they already supports any text in the text format, but browsers only support the binary format at the moment. 15:28:18 i18n-activity#1931 15:28:18 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1931 -> Issue 1931 `Get Title` doesn't have language/direction metadata (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [t:bidi_strings] [t:lang_strings] [wg:fedid] [s:fedcm] 15:29:08 addison: FedCM is Federated Credential Management. 15:29:37 ... If you have credentials on a site, you can show them in a browser dialog. 15:30:01 ... This issue is about getting the title of the dialog. 15:30:25 +1 15:30:27 +1 15:30:28 ... There is no language metadata. 15:30:33 i18n-activity#1930 15:30:33 +1 15:30:34 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1930 -> Issue 1930 Allowances for language negotiation (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [t:lang_negotiation] [wg:fedid] [s:fedcm] 15:32:02 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1929 15:32:03 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1929 -> Issue 1929 Fields `name` and `given_name` have unclear usage (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [t:bidi_strings] [t:lang_strings] [t:loc_names] [wg:fedid] [s:fedcm] 15:32:03 addison: No support for language negotiation when getting client metadata. 15:33:05 addison: Unclear what the usage of these names is. The example sets both Name and Given_name to "Johnny". What should happen? 15:33:17 xfq: Are these fields optional? 15:33:30 addison: No, I don't believe they are. 15:33:45 xfq: We should ask about the intention, indeed. 15:34:16 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1928 15:34:16 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1928 -> Issue 1928 `IdentityProviderBranding` field `name` should provide lang and direction (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [t:bidi_strings] [t:lang_strings] [wg:fedid] [s:fedcm] 15:34:55 addison: IdentityProviderBranding is a string, but has no language metadata. 15:34:59 agenda? 15:35:32 zakim, take up agendum 8 15:35:32 agendum 8 -- String-Search PR -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:35:46 https://github.com/w3c/string-search/pull/23 15:35:47 https://github.com/w3c/string-search/pull/23 -> Pull Request 23 Address I18N-ACTION-90 by adding text from scroll-to-text-fragment#233 (by aphillips) 15:36:10 addison: I saw xfq did a review 15:39:06 addison: I'll address those comment and push a new draft. Thoughts? 15:39:35 zakim, take up agendum 9 15:39:35 agendum 9 -- Specdev PRs -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:39:55 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/146 15:39:55 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/146 -> Pull Request 146 Fix examples (by aphillips) 15:40:18 addison: I fixed a bunch of examples. 15:40:39 https://deploy-preview-146--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#sec-dir-example 15:40:54 benallen has joined #i18n 15:41:55 xfq: Yes, the incorrect example is now clearly labeled. 15:42:28 r12a: give the table some more space in the first column? 15:43:31 addison: There is a second change. 15:43:35 https://deploy-preview-146--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#example-3 15:43:45 ... Just above example 3 15:44:17 ... It shows that LRM doesn't fix things the way that DIR does. 15:45:30 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/142 15:45:31 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/142 -> Pull Request 142 Add a note about EGCs (by aphillips) 15:46:41 addison: We talked about this previously. Not 100% sure about the beauty of this. 15:46:49 https://deploy-preview-142--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#characters 15:47:25 addison: It starts 2 paras before the green box. 15:47:37 .. the bulk is in the green box. 15:49:32 r12a: You have an empty element, and @@ 15:50:11 ... I wouldn't say UNicode provides several definition. 15:50:31 .. CAn just say "provides a definition" 15:51:07 ... Sounds like there are alternatives, but there aren't really. 15:51:32 ... You say later on which is the one we're really talking about. 15:52:42 addison: Trying to avoid adding another blue example. 15:53:38 r12a: Maybe add semicolon and add glyphs. And break the line before "Unicode splits..." 15:54:18 ... It is useful to have that green box. 15:55:05 addison: xfq, you had some traffic with Anne van Kesteren about this? 15:55:59 https://deploy-preview-128--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#idn 15:56:07 ... You proposed ^^ 15:57:06 s/this/IDNA/ 15:57:58 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/128#issuecomment-2461397799 15:57:59 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/128 -> Pull Request 128 New section about IDNs (by xfq) [Best Practice] [normative] 15:59:07 xfq: My text in this PR does not explain the differences between IDNA2008, IDNA2003, and between them and the URL spec. 15:59:15 addison: You added useful links. 16:00:07 xfq: IDNA2008 will refuse symbols. 16:00:41 rrsagent, make minutes 16:00:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-i18n-minutes.html xfq 16:00:48 addison: Unicode UTS46. 16:01:21 ... Whether following UTS36 is good I don't know. 16:01:33 ... It is clear than nobody should use IDNA2003. 16:01:50 ... But what is best between the others? 16:02:15 annevk said in part: "For specifications dealing directly with domains we'd want them to reuse https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#host-parsing." 16:02:15 ... Maybe take Anne's comment. 16:02:52 xfq: I can do another integration. 16:04:01 addison: That host parsing section seems a good place to point to. 16:04:33 xfq: I suggested section 3.3, which is specifically about parsing domain names. 16:04:48 agenda? 16:05:04 zakim, take up agendum 10 16:05:04 agendum 10 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot] 16:06:43 zakim, make minutes 16:06:43 I don't understand 'make minutes', addison 16:06:45 rrsagent, make minutes 16:06:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-i18n-minutes.html xfq 16:07:00 zakim, who is here? 16:07:00 Present: Addison, r12a, Bert, Fuqiao, Atsushi 16:07:03 On IRC I see benallen, atsushi, RRSAgent, Zakim, addison, r12a, florian, gb, eemeli, csarven, Mek, hadleybeeman, alastairc, koji, jyasskin, cwilso, Rachael, astearns, fantasai, 16:07:03 ... aki, agendabot, xfq, Bert 16:07:04 present+ Ben 16:07:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-i18n-minutes.html addison 16:18:51 benallen has joined #i18n