– DRAFT –
MATF 6 November 2024

<JJ> Jon Gibbins introducing himself, he was previously involved in WCAG guidance, actively working in consultancy and training for Android and iOS

JJ walking us through the agenda:

Guidance naming

4.1.3 Status Messages

1.2.3 Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded)

1.2.4 Captions (Live)

1.3.3 - Sensory Characteristics

Definitions

JJ we'll now be going back to some small variations - the idea is that we finish these done in terms of guidance so we can get to the other larger ones.

No other agenda topics to be discussed before starting on planned agenda

Guidance naming

thanks: )

JJ Name is not very consitant, suggesting Guidance on Applying WCAG 2.2 to Mobile (WCAG2Mobile) and Shortname: wcag2mobile-22

<JJ> Link to guidance naming: w3c/matf#76

Jamie So this isn't a continuation of the prior draft note?

JJ no

JJ will remove references to 2.0

JJwe should point to latest doc

Joe_Humbert Is there a way to let people know what's outdated?

JJ there is a repo (Mobile-A11y-TF-Note)

ACTION: Update W3C Mobile Accessibility Page

ACTION: Check if we can update published (outdated) guidance with link to new guidance

4.1.3 Status Messages

JJ mentioning that use of the term "markup" is problematic for mobile

JJ reading through comments

Joe_Humbert for the note about toast/snackbar - this seems very specific and terms might change, subject to Google or other platforms

<quintinb> +1 - probably should call them "UI-based notifications"

<Joe_Humbert> good suggestion quintinb

<dotjay> Joe has a good point. It’s probably better to use WAI Aria APG design pattern terminology – although totally acknowledge that these don’t all map neatly to native mobile

julianmka I think that we need to talk about iOS - we should describe the general behaviour, the problem is that they're always at the bottom, self-dismissing, etc

<quintinb> +1 julianmka - magnifier magnifier magnifier

Yeah we should mention or link to "time to take action" - although that is Android only

<dotjay> I use “snackbars” and “in-app notifications” interchangably

JJ I noticed that when going through WCAG3 I found it interesting that when things are too generic, it's difficult to follow

<Joe_Humbert> +1 to generic term , but give current examples somewhere

normative vs informative?

JJ we are trying to focus on normative for now

JJ we don't want to end up with too many notes distracting and balance is key

dotjayit's a good idea to be generic in terms of UI patterns. Glossaries can be helpful in this context. Probably smart idea to specify a group of standard phrases to describe things in a cross platform manner.

JJ can we delete the first sentence of NOTE 1, since mobile is not markup

Jamie can we use "since it's not implemented using m/u..."

<Joe_Humbert> the shorter, the better

<quintinb> +1 Joe_Humbert - probably should remove references to markup - regardless of presentation + structure, it should work as such...

or we could just publish a new book on 4.1.3 Note 1...

Joe_Humbert should we consider other elements such as PDF's in this context?

JJ we should focus on native right now

JJ PDF would use WCAG2PDF and web WCAG2Web etc

<JJ> ack \

Could we not just remove the reference to markup languages for mobile?

<dotjay> quintinb: +1

<dotjay> I do feel it’s important to be clear around use of web terminology. Indeed, I know accessibillity consultants that use references to web technology like markup languages to be the reason that an SC should not be applied.

<dotjay> While this guidance likely needs to reflect WCAG, there are SCs that need to be specifically interpreted for mobile.

JJ the mobile guidance would be more compact, so maybe we can remove the reference, but we need to be careful as to why WCAG2ICT didn't remove the guidance

<julianmka> +1 dotjay

<dotjay> We should be able to deviate from guidance that’s been designed to apply to “software” in general

<Jamie> A glossary term or something somewhere about "markup languages" could be helpful for non-technical readers

Joe_Humbert maybe there needs to be a higher level statement about removing markup languages with a set of reasons why - there may be a greater pattern here

<Joe_Humbert> quintinb has valid points about consumers of this Group Note

Comment: It would be nice to reach devs, but they are not the primary audience for this type of documentation

ACTION: Proposetext for 4.1.3 and shortened note on Github

1.2.3 Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded)

Quintin's hot take: I love this

1.2.3 is already voted on

1.2.4 Captions (Live)

1.2.4 is already voted on

Zakim is fault tolerant regarding accidentally moving forward at least

I think this is one of the best and clear SC's ever

<julianmka> p+

1.3.3 - Sensory Characteristics

JJ we seem to just add haptics, unless nyone has anything to add

Joe_Humbert - wondering if we do a note for haptics

<Jamie> +1

Was thinking to add it to the list

Joe_Humbert we should probably add a note

e.g. You ca't just have a "shake to report" mechanism - there needs to be other mechanisms

ACTION: Can we make additions to SC text, e.g. for 1.3.3 Sensory Characteristics: add "haptics" to the list

Joe_Humbert can we add it - it would be nice to know if we can change that list

Thanks Joe_Humbert

<dotjay> Just noting that the wording of “such as” implies that this is not a definitive list. A note may suffice.

<JJ> Vote: add "haptics" in Note of 1.3.3

<quintinb> +1

<Joe_Humbert> +1

<Jamie> +1

<julianmka> +1

<dotjay> +1

<GleidsonRamos> +1

<Jamie> also +1 to know if we can't modify... or what that needs to look like formally for W3C since we have several larger variation SC

ACTION: Add "haptics" in Note of 1.3.3 (and potentially convert to text change at future stage)

Definitions

<Jamie> did we skip Captions and AD on purpose?

Jamie we already voted and closed them previously

<Jamie> ah right thx

JJ if you want to chair or participate in the views subgroup, let JJ know

<Jamie> can we go ahead and officially close "closed" issues in Github JJ?

ACTION: Close SC's that have been voted on and included in draft guidance

<JJ> Slack link: https://matf.to/slack

julianmka 3.2.2 is ready to be voted on

<JJ> SC 3.3.2 is ready for voting: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Avoting

<JJ> w3c/matf#45

Thanks JJ

Bye!