W3C

RDF-star WG biweekly meeting

24 October 2024

Attendees

Present
AndyS, AZ, doerthe, Dominik_T, draggett, eBremer, fsasaki, gkellogg, gtw, james, ktk, niklasl, ora, pchampin, pfps, TallTed, tl
Regrets
-
Chair
ora
Scribe
draggett

Meeting minutes

Approval of minutes from the last six meetings: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6

<AZ> The minutes are very good, IMO

ora: 6 meeting minutes to approve, see links

<pchampin> I forgot to present+ in last week meeting, but I can easily add myself back

<AZ> minutes of the 3rd October uses first names in the conversation instead of IRC nicknames

<TallTed> note for future agendas -- shorter line items will prevent agendabot/zakim overflow

<james> i would have a question about last week's straw poll.

ora: any objections/changes?

<pchampin> TallTed, I instructed gb to ignore agendabot, so there should be less problem in the future

<TallTed> pchampin -- see above, where the agenda item cut off at "-> 5"

james: I looked at last week's minutes, and wonder what exactly was polled.

ora: it's really whether after the fact you are able to distinguish whether statements were or were not asserted when you make statements about them

james: could it be rephrased to make the poll intent clearer

ora: it was just an informal poll to take the temperature of the group

pfps: it was what it was

<pchampin> +1

ora: should we do a new poll then?

pfps: it has nothing to do with the minutes
… the minutes are an accurate account, but the meeting may have been confused\

ora: people voted on the statement given at the time

ora: my understanding is that people did understand what was being polled at the time

AZ: on Oct 3rd people used their first names, making it easy to do a search and replace

ora: I would be fine with that

<TallTed> being consistent within a session makes things less confusing, but it will not cause any problems to anything to leave them as they are

<AZ> It's ok for me if we use the real names, I was just wondering if this creates issues

<pfps> My view is that first/nick is not important.

<TallTed> no tooling cares

pchampin: I am happy to do a search and replace if the group wants that. In most cases people will know the mapping from nicknames to real names, but I am happy to fix that

ora: I agree that is true, but for new members it would be helpful

TallTed: which do we want irc handles or real names, my view is that irc handles is preferable
… there is no tooling that looks at this

ora: true, do you have a suggestion?

TallTed: let's go with irc handles

ora: years from now, will we know the mapping?

ora: for this poll let's use irc handles

ora: any other comments about the minutes?

<pfps> look fine by me

<ora> PROPOSAL: Approve all minutes

<TallTed> +1

<AZ> +1

<pfps> +1

<eBremer> +1

<Dominik_T> +1

<ktk> +1

<niklasl> +1

<AndyS> +1

<tl> +1

<fsasaki> +1

<ora> +1

<gtw> +1

<doerthe> +1

<pchampin> +1

<Souri> +1

ora: minutes approved

<gkellogg> +1

RESOLUTION: Approve all minutes

Prioritization of next week's topics 7

<pfps> there be dragons!

Anyone with suggestions for something to put as the top priority?

AndyS: what about item 6?
… more planning than technical substance

ora: we could create a wiki page to gather the feedback

gkellogg: item 10 seems pretty non controversial

<AndyS> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6

<gkellogg> w3c/rdf-concepts#60

<gb> Issue 60 Drop the requirement to support ill-typed literals with recognized datatype IRIs (by wouterbeek) [needs discussion] [spec:enhancement]

gkellogg: to tighten up some of the wording, some comments by Ivan Herman

gkellogg: on equality ...

gkellogg: in respect to RDF in JSON

ora: can we make this go away, I personally have no strong opinions one way or another

gkellogg: we need objections before we create a pull request

ora: can we put this to bed now?

pfps: yes, but the problem is around floating point numbers and JCS

gkellogg: is negative zero the same as zero

ora: this may not be low hanging fruit, but I would still like to solve this

ora: let's try and find easier topics to advance on for next week

AndyS: RDF composites would be an easier topic

pchampin: I don't see the order at present

See RDF-star working group dashboard

<pfps> I see the order

Review of open actions, available at 8

ktk: one action outstanding from TPAC

pchampin: still unsure of the outcome of the discussion re un-star

<pfps> 1E400 is in the lexical space of xsd:double and maps into +INF

pchampin: is this the responsibility for this group or the I18N group

ora: the backward compatibility viewpoint suggests we need a discussion in this group

Review of pull requests, available at 9

<gb> Issue 114 Un-star operation to support RDF Dataset Canonicalization? (by niklasl) [needs discussion] [discuss-f2f]

AndyS: triple terms impact test, current status is that we are discussing some points on the manifest vocabulary and some of the tests

ora: are you suggesting we merge this and invite discussion?

AndyS: yes, as this would make it easier to follow as it is a big pull request

gkellogg: I didn't look at them critically, but think it forms a good basis

gkellogg: so yes, let's merge it. I also wanted to raise turtle update

<gtw> I'm pretty confident in the query parts of the tests PR. Haven't yet made it through the udpate tests in as much detail.

AndyS: the media registration can refer to the WG

<Zakim> pfps, you wanted to suggest closing the second issue

pfps: one issue has been hanging about for a long time, and I suggest we close it

<james> sparql-query contact is : Person & email address to contact for further information:

<james> public-rdf-dawg-comments&w3.org

ora: I am good with that

<pfps> done

ora: any objections?

[no]

TallTed: regarding media type registrations, the practice is to put W3C as the controller not a specific WG, and put the WG in the context

<AndyS> SPARQL has "The SPARQL 1.2 specification is a work product of the World Wide Web Consortium's RDF-star Working Group. The W3C has change control over these specifications."

pchampin: we have a number of discussions ongoing about media types ...

ACTION: pchampin to check on standard practices for media type registrations.

<gb> Created action #133

<AndyS> SPARQ 1.1 had the same except 1.1

Issue Triage, available at 10

ora: would it make sense to tackle the issue triage and prioritisation together?

ora: and allocate people to progress them

ora: any small ones for discussion right now? For example broken links in SPARQL 1.1. update

AndyS: I can take that one

gkellogg: that might be obsolete

ora: line item 9 should be easily fixed

ora: did we handle the issue around punicode to the I18N folks?

AndyS: this isn't significant any more ...

ora: can we resolve on this here and now?

ora: I need to study this myself to better understand this, anything else?

gkellogg: line item 12 is now unblocked

ora: so no action needed?

<AZ> issue 13: w3c/sparql-query#13

<gb> Issue 13 Update language about IRIs (by afs) [i18n-tracker] [spec:editorial]

gkellogg: the issue has since been closed in RDF concepts, so we can now make the corresponding change in RDF query

gkellogg: I believe we can now create a pull request

ora: anyone want to take this on, it doesn't seem like a huge thing

gkellogg: all of these documents have editors, so at some point the chair should appoint an editor

ora: I agree. Who is the editor?

AndyS: I am one of the five

Ora: AndyS please take this on, but feel free to hand it on to someone else if appropriate

AndyS: I can take this on

ora: anything else?

[no]

ora: it seems we have a lot of bugs and editorial things outstanding

ora: please feel free to work on this

gkellogg: issues 77 and 78 are marked pending, and we need to do something to allow us to close them

<gkellogg> w3c/rdf-concepts#46

<gb> Issue 46 Why quoted triples, when we already have named graphs? (by lars-hellstrom) [wr:pending]

<gkellogg> w3c/rdf-concepts#79

<gb> Issue 79 Reconsider bidirectional (bidi) tag? (by termontwouter) [wr:pending]

ora: I will look at those myself and see what should be done

ora: any other business?

<pfps> I can be on the semantics call tomorrow

<Souri> I'll be there tomorrow

ora: let's have tomorrow's meeting and see if anyone turns up. I am giving talk on RDF star at this time next week, so Adrian will chair for me.

<Zakim> AZ, you wanted to say that we have a timezone shift next week

AZ: noe that for European folks the meeting is one hour earlier due to US time zone change
… end of meeting

<pchampin> next meeting -- https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e7387703-d1cb-4215-a7e1-eec9b4af24d4/20241031T120000/

<pchampin> double-check the time if you are in Europe

Summary of action items

  1. pchampin to check on standard practices for media type registrations.

Summary of resolutions

  1. Approve all minutes
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 242 (Fri Dec 20 18:32:17 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

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Succeeded: s/on-star/un-star

Succeeded: s/of/or/

Succeeded: s/the largest positive number./+INF/

Succeeded: s/doc type/media/

Succeeded: s/one of the four/one of the five/

Succeeded: s/next meeting:/next meeting --/

All speakers: AndyS, AZ, gkellogg, james, ktk, ora, pchampin, pfps, TallTed

Active on IRC: AndyS, AZ, doerthe, Dominik_T, draggett, eBremer, fsasaki, gkellogg, gtw, james, ktk, niklasl, ora, pchampin, pfps, Souri, TallTed, tl