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16:00:19 <TallTed> present+
16:00:27 <tl> present+
16:00:34 <eBremer> present+
16:00:35 <TallTed> meeting: RDF-star WG biweekly meeting
16:00:42 <pchampin> present+
16:00:57 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/348e384e-2c0d-4c88-bb5c-5ddddf93ef4d/20241024T120000/
16:00:58 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:00:58 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last six meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/17-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/03-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 3 https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 4 https://www.w3.org/2024/09/24-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 5
16:00:59 <agendabot> … https://www.w3.org/2024/09/19-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 6 https://www.w3.org/2024/09/12-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:00:59 <agendabot> agenda+ Prioritization of next week's topics -> 7 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6
16:01:01 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 8 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
16:01:04 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at -> 9 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
16:01:07 <agendabot> agenda+ Issue Triage, available at -> 10 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
16:01:10 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
16:01:17 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:01:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
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16:01:26 <Dominik_T> present+
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16:01:36 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/10/18-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:01:43 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/10/25-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:01:44 <draggett> scribenick: draggett
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16:01:50 <gtw> present+
16:01:54 <ora> present+
16:01:58 <fsasaki> present+
16:02:04 <ora> chair+
16:02:06 <AZ> present+
16:02:14 <AndyS> present+
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16:02:26 <gkellogg> present+
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16:02:44 <james> present+
16:02:44 <pfps> present+
16:02:44 <draggett> present+
16:02:49 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:03:25 <TallTed> Zakim, open item 1
16:03:25 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last six meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/17-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/03-rdf-star-minutes.html ,
16:03:26 <AZ> The minutes are very good, IMO
16:03:29 <Zakim> ... -> 3 https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 4 https://www.w3.org/2024/09/24-rdf-star-minutes.html ,
16:03:30 <Zakim> ... -> 5 https://www.w3.org/2024/09/19-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 6 https://www.w3.org/2024/09/12-rdf-star-minutes.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:03:39 <draggett> ora: 6 meeting minutes to approve, see links
16:04:05 <pchampin> I forgot to present+ in last week meeting, but I can easily add myself back
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16:04:18 <AZ> minutes of the 3rd October uses first names in the conversation instead of IRC nicknames
16:04:21 <Dominik_T> present+
16:04:26 <niklasl> present+
16:04:30 <TallTed> note for future agendas -- shorter line items will prevent agendabot/zakim overflow
16:04:30 <doerthe> present+
16:04:43 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
16:04:55 <james> i would have a question about last week's straw pole.
16:05:03 <TallTed> s/pole/poll
16:05:07 <draggett> ora: any objections/changes?
16:05:20 <pchampin> TallTed, I instructed gb to ignore agendabot, so there should be less problem in the future
16:05:49 <TallTed> pchampin -- see above, where the agenda item cut off at "-> 5"
16:05:51 <draggett> james: I looked at last week's minutes, and wonder what exactly was polled.
16:06:30 <draggett> ora: it's really whether after the fact you are able to distinguish whether statements were or were not asserted when you make statements about them
16:07:05 <draggett> james: could it be rephrased to make the poll intent clearer
16:07:24 <draggett> ora: it was just an informal poll to take the temperature of the group
16:07:35 <draggett> pfps: it was what it was
16:07:43 <pchampin> +1
16:07:44 <draggett> ora: should we do a new poll then?
16:07:58 <draggett> pfps: it has nothing to do with the minutes
16:08:28 <draggett> ... the minutes are an accurate account, but the meeting may have been confused\
16:08:57 <draggett> ora: people voted on the statement given at the time
16:09:12 <AZ> q+
16:09:22 <ora> ack AZ
16:09:23 <draggett> ora: my understanding is that people did understand what was being polled at the time
16:10:02 <pchampin> q+
16:10:09 <draggett> AZ: on Oct 3rd people used their first names, making it easy to do a search and replace
16:10:19 <draggett> ora: I would be fine with that
16:10:32 <ora> ack pchampin
16:11:22 <TallTed> being consistent within a session makes things less confusing, but it will not cause any problems to anything to leave them as they are
16:11:28 <ora> q+
16:11:33 <ora> ack ora
16:11:35 <AZ> It's ok for me if we use the real names, I was just wondering if this creates issues
16:11:41 <pfps> My view is that first/nick is not important.
16:11:42 <TallTed> no tooling cares
16:11:42 <draggett> pchampin: I am happy to do a search and replace if the group wants that.  In most cases people will know the mapping from nicknames to real names, but I am happy to fix that
16:12:10 <TallTed> q+
16:12:16 <draggett> ora: I agree that is true, but for new members it would be helpful
16:12:18 <ora> ack TallTed
16:12:47 <draggett> TallTed: which do we want irc handles or real names, my view is that irc handles is preferable
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16:13:00 <tl> present+ again
16:13:06 <draggett> ... there is no tooling that looks at this
16:13:15 <draggett> ora: true, do you have a suggestion?
16:13:40 <draggett> TallTed: let's go with irc handles
16:13:53 <pchampin> s/present+ again/
16:13:58 <draggett> ora: years from now, will we know the mapping?
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16:14:24 <doerthe> present+
16:14:25 <draggett> ora: for this poll let's use irc handles
16:14:53 <draggett> ora: any other comments about the minutes?
16:15:04 <pfps> look fine by me
16:15:07 <ktk> present+
16:15:44 <ora> PROPOSAL: Approve all minutes
16:15:49 <TallTed> +1
16:15:50 <ora> eiifccrchhcikcjthjljekffcheiegchvcchcflguvfh
16:15:51 <AZ> +1
16:15:51 <pfps> +1
16:15:52 <eBremer> +1
16:15:52 <Dominik_T> +1
16:15:53 <ktk> +1
16:15:53 <niklasl> +1
16:15:54 <AndyS> +1
16:15:55 <tl> +1
16:15:57 <fsasaki> +1
16:15:58 <ora> +1
16:15:59 <gtw> +1
16:15:59 <doerthe> +1
16:16:07 <ora> s/eiifccrchhcikcjthjljekffcheiegchvcchcflguvfh//
16:16:08 <pchampin> +1
16:17:21 <Souri> +1
16:17:38 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:17:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:17:46 <draggett> ora: minutes approved
16:17:46 <gkellogg> +1
16:17:49 <ora> RESOLVED: Approve all minutes
16:18:04 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:18:04 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Prioritization of next week's topics -> 7 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6 -- taken up [from agendabot]
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16:20:11 <AndyS> q+
16:20:21 <pfps> there be dragons!
16:20:25 <ora> ack AndyS
16:20:27 <draggett> Anyone with suggestions for something to put as the top priority?
16:20:48 <draggett> AndyS: what about item 6?
16:21:04 <draggett> ... more planning than technical substance
16:21:06 <gkellogg> q+
16:21:29 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:21:30 <draggett> ora: we could create a wiki page to gather the feedback
16:21:53 <draggett> gkellogg: item 10 seems pretty non controversial
16:23:46 <AndyS> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6
16:23:50 <gkellogg> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/60
16:23:51 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/60 -> Issue 60 Drop the requirement to support ill-typed literals with recognized datatype IRIs (by wouterbeek) [needs discussion] [spec:enhancement]
16:25:03 <AndyS> q+
16:25:22 <AndyS> q-
16:27:08 <draggett> gkellogg: to tighten up some of the wording, some comments by Ivan Herman
16:27:48 <draggett> gkellogg: on equality ...
16:28:27 <draggett> gkellogg: in respect to RDF in JSON
16:28:48 <AndyS> q+
16:28:49 <draggett> ora: can we make this go away, I personally have no strong opinions one way or another
16:29:13 <draggett> gkellogg: we need objections before we create a pull request
16:29:37 <draggett> ora: can we put this to bed now?
16:30:07 <draggett> pfps: yes, but the problem is around floating point numbers and JCS
16:30:44 <draggett> gkellogg: is negative zero the same as zero
16:31:38 <draggett> ora: this may not be low hanging fruit, but I would still like to solve this
16:32:02 <ora> ack AndyS
16:32:05 <draggett> ora: let's try and find easier topics to advance on for next week
16:32:24 <draggett> AndyS: RDF composites would be an easier topic
16:32:37 <pchampin> q+
16:32:57 <draggett> pchampin: I don't see the order at present
16:33:21 <draggett> See RDF-star working group dashboard
16:33:33 <pfps> I see the order
16:33:53 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:33:53 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ktk
16:34:04 <ktk> ack pchampin
16:34:05 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:34:05 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 8 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:34:33 <draggett> ktk: one action outstanding from TPAC
16:35:20 <draggett> pchampin: still unsure of the outcome of the discussion re on-star
16:35:34 <pfps> 1E400 is in the lexical space of xsd:double and maps into the largest positive number.
16:35:39 <tl> s/on-star/un-star
16:35:49 <draggett> ... is this the responsibility for this group of the I18N group
16:35:58 <draggett> s/of/or/
16:36:26 <draggett> ora: the backward compatibility viewpoint suggests we need a discussion in this group
16:36:33 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:36:33 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review of pull requests, available at -> 9 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:36:48 <gkellogg> q+
16:36:49 <pfps> s/the largest positive number./+INF/
16:37:16 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/114 -> Issue 114 Un-star operation to support RDF Dataset Canonicalization? (by niklasl) [needs discussion] [discuss-f2f]
16:37:54 <draggett> AndyS: triple terms impact test, current status is that we are discussing some points on the manifest vocabulary and some of the tests
16:38:36 <draggett> ora: are you suggesting we merge this and invite discussion?
16:38:54 <pfps> q+ to suggest closing the second issue
16:39:00 <draggett> AndyS: yes, as this would make it easier to follow as it is a big pull request
16:39:20 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:39:33 <draggett> gkellogg: I didn't look at them critically, but think it forms a good basis
16:40:06 <draggett> gkellogg: so yes, let's merge it. I also wanted to raise turtle update
16:40:30 <gtw> I'm pretty confident in the query parts of the tests PR. Haven't yet made it through the udpate tests in as much detail.
16:40:54 <TallTed> q+
16:40:56 <draggett> AndyS: the doc type registration can refer to the WG
16:41:22 <ora> ack pfps
16:41:22 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to suggest closing the second issue
16:41:45 <draggett> pfps: one issue has been hanging about for a long time, and I suggest we close it
16:41:46 <james> sparql-query contact is : Person & email address to contact for further information:
16:41:47 <james> public-rdf-dawg-comments&w3.org
16:42:18 <draggett> ora: I am good with that
16:42:37 <pfps> done
16:42:38 <draggett> ora: any objections?
16:42:42 <draggett> [no]
16:42:46 <ktk> q?
16:42:50 <ktk> ack TallTed
16:42:51 <ora> ack TallTed
16:43:21 <draggett> TallTed: regarding media type registrations, the practice is to put W3C as the controller not a specific WG, and put the WG in the context
16:43:33 <draggett> s/doc type/media/
16:44:08 <AndyS> SPARQL has  "The SPARQL 1.2 specification is a work product of the World Wide Web Consortium's RDF-star Working Group. The W3C has change control over these specifications."
16:44:09 <draggett> pchampin: we have a number of discussions ongoing about media types ...
16:44:15 <gkellogg> action: pchampin to check on standard practices for media  type registrations.
16:44:22 <gb> Created -> action #133 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/133
16:44:25 <AndyS> SPARQ 1.1 had the same except 1.1
16:44:29 <ktk> q?
16:44:39 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:44:39 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Issue Triage, available at -> 10 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:45:42 <draggett> ora: would it make sense to tackle the issue triage and prioritisation together?
16:46:33 <draggett> ora: and allocate people to progress them
16:47:01 <draggett> ora: any small ones for discussion right now?  For example broken links in SPARQL 1.1. update
16:47:09 <draggett> AndyS: I can take that one
16:47:34 <draggett> gkellogg: that might be obsolete
16:48:11 <draggett> ora: line item 9 should be easily fixed
16:48:36 <draggett> ora: did we handle the issue around punicode to the I18N folks?
16:49:05 <draggett> AndyS: this isn't significant any more ...
16:49:37 <draggett> ora: can we resolve on this here and now?
16:50:46 <draggett> ora: I need to study this myself to better understand this, anything else?
16:51:00 <draggett> gkellogg: line item 12 is now unblocked
16:51:15 <draggett> ora: so no action needed?
16:51:42 <AZ> issue 13:  https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/issues/13
16:51:43 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/issues/13 -> Issue 13 Update language about IRIs (by afs) [i18n-tracker] [spec:editorial]
16:51:49 <draggett> gkellogg: the issue has since been closed in RDF concepts, so we can now make the corresponding change in RDF query
16:52:12 <draggett> gkellogg: I believe we can now create a pull request
16:52:32 <draggett> ora: anyone want to take this on, it doesn't seem like a huge thing
16:53:16 <draggett> gkellogg: all of these documents have editors, so at some point the chair should appoint an editor
16:53:37 <draggett> ora: I agree. Who is the editor?
16:53:42 <draggett> AndyS: I am one of the four
16:54:25 <draggett> Ora: AndyS please take this on, but feel free to hand it on to someone else if appropriate
16:54:40 <AZ> s/one of the four/one of the five/
16:55:08 <draggett> AndyS: I can take this on
16:55:21 <draggett> ora: anything else?
16:55:32 <draggett> [no]
16:55:54 <draggett> ora: it seems we have a lot of bugs and editorial things outstanding
16:56:11 <draggett> ora: please feel free to work on this
16:56:32 <gkellogg> q+
16:56:39 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:57:11 <draggett> gkellogg: issues 77 and 78 are marked pending, and we need to do something to allow us to close them
16:57:38 <gkellogg> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/46
16:57:39 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/46 -> Issue 46 Why quoted triples, when we already have named graphs? (by lars-hellstrom) [wr:pending]
16:57:45 <gkellogg> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/79
16:57:46 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/79 -> Issue 79 Reconsider bidirectional (bidi) tag? (by termontwouter) [wr:pending]
16:58:01 <AZ> q+ to say that we have a timezone shift next week
16:58:06 <draggett> ora: I will look at those myself and see what should be done
16:58:13 <draggett> ora: any other business?
16:58:13 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:58:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:58:49 <pfps> I can be on the semantics call tomorrow
16:59:03 <Souri> I'll be there tomorrow
16:59:35 <draggett> ora: let's have tomorrow's meeting and see if anyone turns up. I am giving talk on RDF star at this time next week, so Adrian will chair for me.
16:59:48 <ktk> q?
16:59:49 <ktk> ack AZ
16:59:49 <Zakim> AZ, you wanted to say that we have a timezone shift next week
17:00:20 <draggett> AZ: noe that for European folks the meeting is one hour earlier due to US time zone change
17:00:26 <draggett> ... end of meeting
17:00:33 <draggett> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:00:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-rdf-star-minutes.html draggett
17:00:42 <pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e7387703-d1cb-4215-a7e1-eec9b4af24d4/20241031T120000/
17:00:46 <pchampin> double-check the time if you are in Europe
17:00:58 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:01:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:01:20 <TallTed> s/next meeting:/next meeting --/
17:01:23 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:01:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
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