W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA WG

10 October 2024

Attendees

Present
aardrian, Adam_Page, ChrisCuellar, CurtBellew, Daniel, filippo-zorzi, jcraig, jocelyntran, katez, keithamus, melsumner, pkra, Rahim, scott, smockle, StefanS
Regrets
-
Chair
ValerieYoung
Scribe
smockle

Meeting minutes

Zakim: next item

New Issue Triage

w3c/aria#2353

aaron: On Windows, JAWS and NVDA connect to DOM with IA2, but they can also use ISimpleDOMNode, an older API.

aaron: data-mathml is used by Google Sheets and MathJax. Its used to provide MathML representations of images.

peter: MathJax doesn’t use data-mathml today.

aaron: Okay, then lets close this issue.

aaron: Google Sheets can surface the MathML in a different way.

jcraig: MathJax ≥3 keeps the MathML

aaron: Peter, could you send a snippet of what the code should look like?

peter: Sure

w3c/aria#2352

aaron: This is for student tests. Pearson, ETS, etc.

aaron: It’s for testing whether a student can read text aloud, so that text is put in a non-standard brailleonlyregion, so that it isn’t otherwise read aloud.

spectranaut_: let’s agenda that

w3c/aria#2351

aaron: data-at-shortcutkeys is put on a non-focusable element. When JAWS sees it, it parses the JSON, then tells the user what keys are available—and tries to avoid key conflicts.

aaron: Do screen readers otherwise have trouble finding these key shortcuts?

matt_king: Many apps have other ways to get to key shortcut information.

matt_king: JAWS has a feature for disabling key shortcuts with conflicts.

matt_king: Let’s agenda this

w3c/aria#2348

spectranaut_: Is aria-required and aria-readonly allowed on columnheader only in a grid (not treegrid)?

matt_king: It is an inconsistency.

spectranaut_: We’ll agenda this

w3c/aria#2347

scott: This is something that needs to be talked about. In HTML, you can use `placeholder` on number inputs, but in ARIA, we don’t list `aria-placeholder` as an allowed property on comboboxes or spin buttons.

scott: It’s not as simple as “allow these”, because it doesn’t always make sense to do so.

spectranaut_: Can someone add a clarifying comment to the issue?

scott: I can, eventually, though others are welcome to follow-up too.

w3c/aria#2346

aaron: I worked this out with Scott; he has a PR.

aaron: You put `aria-setsize="-1"` when you don’t know the number of objects and `auto` can’t compute it.

New PR Triage

w3c/aria#2350

<scott> w3c/aria#2341

https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls

w3c/aria#2350

scott: There’s an issue open for this, from 3 weeks ago.

scott: It’s a question re: how `autocomplete` and `aria-autocomplete` relate; this PR attempts to clarify that.

scott: This is not editorial.

w3c/aria#2344

scott: `<selectedoption>` is a new HTML element for customizable selects.

scott: It represents the value of the chosen option.

scott: We should think about e.g. what happens if someone tries to overwrite the visible text with an `aria-label`.

scott: This should match the select’s value.

scott: This PR needs discussion; it’s a partial PR right now.

Rahim: There is a great explainer, with a link to the implementation in Chrome. Is that linked from this issue?

scott: No. Also that wouldn’t say anything about the mappings.

w3c/aria#2342

melsumner: This PR is in draft because I thought there might be additional Prettier options we may want to add.

w3c/aria#2341

w3c/aria#2340

w3c/aria#2339

rahim: This is a migrated PR

spectranaut_: That’s all the PRs since TPAC.

https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues

Remaining new issue triage

w3c/aria#2345

jcraig: This is follow-up to Rahim’s issue (linked)

w3c/aria#2343

aardrian: The documentation for the `<abbr>` (element) and `abbr` (attribute) is confusing.

scott: I tried to resolve this in 2019. The mappings in the spec have always been wrong. Help is welcomed.

aardrian: I was going to file a separate issue about mapping and naming. Thanks for validating this is an issue.

spectranaut_: I’ll assign Adrian to the previous issue and close this one as a dupe.

w3c/aria#2337

spectranaut_: We already discussed the PR related to this issue.

w3c/aria#2350

w3c/aria#2324

aardrian: This will rollup into the larger table work I’m doing.

spectranaut_: That is it for ARIA issues; moving on to other repos.

<pkra> a few more:

<pkra> w3c/core-aam#237

<pkra> w3c/html-aam#565

<pkra> w3c/html-aam#564

<pkra> w3c/html-aam#563

w3c/core-aam#237

aaron: We discussed this at TPAC; people were generally in favor.

aaron: Rather than requiring `aria-actions`, we can detect these nested-controls scenarios.

matt_king: Does this depend on `aria-actions`?

aaron: It depends on the actions interface of the platform (e.g. IAccessibleAction), not on `aria-actions` itself.

aaron: ATs will need changes to make use of this.

matt_king: Those changes would be in line with whatever we do to support `aria-actions`?

aaron: Yes; it’s the same mechanism.

w3c/html-aam#565

spectranaut_: Is there anyone we should try to get feedback from, at this stage? Did we talk about focusgroup at TPAC?

jcraig: We talked about it in the context of carousels, and the inertness side-effect.

keithamus: This is being discussed in the OpenUI community groups, but may have stalled.

aaron: This issue can be closed; there is no mapping required. It’s a keyboard navigation behavior.

spectranaut_: And that keyboard behavior would be specified in HTML.

scott: I don’t agree, based on the testing I’ve done, e.g. automatic forms mode. Hyperlinks in a focusgroup trip up NVDA/JAWS. We may need an object attribute.

spectranaut_: I’ll agenda this for further discussion.

w3c/html-aam#564

spectranaut_: Agenda’d.

w3c/html-aam#563

aaron: Mozilla is doing this already; Chrome isn’t yet. When you navigate to a page, you can jump directly to specific text, similar to a named anchor, but better.

aaron: We have some mappings, though using an undocumented property (AXHighlight) for Mac, and nothing for UIA.

jcraig: I’ll look at the Mac mapping.

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 237 (Fri Oct 4 02:31:45 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/this/data-mathml

Succeeded: s/MathJAx/MathJax

Succeeded: s/This is for student tests./This is for student tests. Pearson, ETS, etc./

Succeeded: s/try to/tries to

Succeeded: s/,./.

Succeeded: s/I can/I can, eventually

Maybe present: aaron, matt_king, peter, spectranaut_, Zakim

All speakers: aardrian, aaron, jcraig, keithamus, matt_king, melsumner, peter, Rahim, scott, spectranaut_, Zakim

Active on IRC: aardrian, Adam_Page, ChrisCuellar, CurtBellew, Daniel, filippo-zorzi, jcraig, jocelyntran, katez, keithamus, melsumner, pkra, scott, smockle, spectranaut_, StefanS