17:02:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:02:24 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/10-aria-irc
17:02:24 <ChrisCuellar> ChrisCuellar has joined #aria
17:02:24 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page has joined #aria
17:02:24 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:02:25 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
17:02:25 <pkra> pkra has joined #aria
17:02:32 <katez> katez has joined #aria
17:02:34 <spectranaut_> chair: ValerieYoung
17:02:34 <smockle> present+
17:02:35 <filippo-zorzi> present+
17:02:36 <pkra> present+
17:02:37 <katez> present+
17:02:41 <melsumner> present+
17:02:42 <spectranaut_> agendabot, find agenda
17:02:42 <agendabot> spectranaut_, OK. This may take a minute...
17:02:42 <ChrisCuellar>  present+
17:02:43 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b57854a-65cb-421e-b9e0-f9a8da31f160/20241010T130000/
17:02:43 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:02:43 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://tinyurl.com/794cd92p
17:02:43 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://tinyurl.com/4nkc6xyb
17:02:45 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y
17:02:48 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
17:02:51 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Draft Charter for ARIA Working Group https://w3c.github.io/charter-drafts/2024/aria-charter.html
17:03:34 <Daniel> present+
17:03:47 <scott> scott has joined #aria
17:03:56 <smockle> scribe+
17:04:01 <scott> present+
17:04:04 <Adam_Page> present+
17:04:06 <smockle> Zakim: next item
17:04:25 <smockle> zakim, next item
17:04:25 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://tinyurl.com/794cd92p -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:05:50 <aardrian> aardrian has joined #aria
17:05:57 <aardrian> present+
17:08:12 <CurtBellew> CurtBellew has joined #aria
17:09:14 <StefanS> StefanS has joined #aria
17:11:07 <CurtBellew> present+
17:11:15 <StefanS> present+
17:11:37 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2353
17:11:49 <jocelyntran> jocelyntran has joined #aria
17:11:55 <jocelyntran> present+
17:12:43 <smockle> aaron: On Windows, JAWS and NVDA connect to DOM with IA2, but they can also use ISimpleDOMNode, an older API.
17:14:01 <smockle> aaron: data-mathml is used by Google Sheets and MathJAx. Its used to provide MathML representations of images.
17:14:41 <smockle> peter: MathJax doesn’t use this today.
17:14:52 <smockle> s/this/data-mathml
17:15:08 <smockle> s/MathJAx/MathJax
17:16:00 <smockle> aaron: Okay, then lets close this issue.
17:16:14 <smockle> aaron: Google Sheets can surface the MathML in a different way.
17:16:52 <smockle> jcraig: MathJax ≥3 keeps the MathML
17:17:20 <keithamus> present+
17:17:44 <smockle> aaron: Peter, could you send a snippet of what the code should look like?
17:17:51 <smockle> peter: Sure
17:17:58 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2352
17:18:20 <smockle> aaron: This is for student tests.
17:18:54 <jcraig> present+
17:18:57 <smockle> aaron: It’s for testing whether a student can read text aloud, so that text is put in a non-standard brailleonlyregion, so that it isn’t otherwise read aloud.
17:19:07 <smockle> spectranaut_: let’s agenda that
17:19:12 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2351
17:19:16 <jcraig> s/This is for student tests./This is for student tests. Pearson, ETS, etc./
17:20:01 <smockle> aaron: data-at-shortcutkeys is put on a non-focusable element. When JAWS sees it, it parses the JSON, then tells the user what keys are available—and try to avoid key conflicts.
17:20:11 <smockle> s/try to/tries to
17:21:13 <smockle> aaron: Do screen readers otherwise have trouble finding these key shortcuts?
17:21:30 <spectranaut_> q?
17:21:31 <smockle> matt_king: Many apps have other ways to get to key shortcut information.
17:21:59 <smockle> matt_king: JAWS has a feature for disabling key shortcuts with conflicts.
17:22:15 <smockle> matt_king: Let’s agenda this
17:22:22 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2348
17:23:38 <smockle> spectranaut_: Is aria-required and aria-readonly allowed on columnheader only in a grid (not treegrid)?
17:24:15 <smockle> matt_king: It is an inconsistency.
17:24:22 <smockle> spectranaut_: We’ll agenda this
17:24:28 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2347
17:25:55 <smockle> scott: This is something that needs to be talked about. In HTML, you can use `placeholder` on number inputs, but in ARIA, we don’t list `aria-placeholder` as an allowed property on comboboxes or spin buttons.
17:26:33 <smockle> scott: It’s not as simple as “allow these”, because it doesn’t always make sense to do so,.
17:26:37 <smockle> s/,./.
17:27:15 <smockle> spectranaut_: Can someone add a clarifying comment to the issue?
17:27:31 <smockle> scott: I can, though others are welcome to follow-up too.
17:27:58 <smockle> s/I can/I can, eventually
17:28:27 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2346
17:28:50 <smockle> aaron: I worked this out with Scott; he has a PR.
17:29:27 <smockle> aaron: You put `aria-setsize="-1"` when you don’t know the number of objects and `auto` can’t compute it.
17:29:58 <smockle> zakim, next item
17:29:58 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://tinyurl.com/4nkc6xyb -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:30:20 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2350
17:31:02 <scott> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2341
17:31:38 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls
17:31:58 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2350
17:32:24 <smockle> scott: There’s an issue open for this, from 3 weeks ago.
17:32:55 <smockle> scott: It’s a question re: how `autocomplete` and `aria-autocomplete` relate; this PR attempts to clarify that.
17:33:38 <smockle> scott: This is not editorial.
17:33:58 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2344
17:34:30 <smockle> scott: `<selectedoption>` is a new HTML element for customizable selects.
17:34:44 <smockle> scott: It represents the value of the chosen option.
17:35:18 <smockle> scott: We should think about e.g. what happens if someone tries to overwrite the visible text with an `aria-label`.
17:35:28 <smockle> scott: This should match the select’s value.
17:36:04 <smockle> scott: This PR needs discussion; it’s a partial PR right now.
17:36:50 <smockle> Rahim: There is a great explainer, with a link to the implementation in Chrome. Is that linked from this issue?
17:37:01 <smockle> scott: No. Also that wouldn’t say anything about the mappings.
17:38:08 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2342
17:38:40 <smockle> melsumner: This PR is in draft because I thought there might be additional Prettier options we may want to add.
17:38:55 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2341
17:39:35 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2340
17:40:24 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2339
17:40:36 <smockle> rahim: This is a migrated PR
17:40:59 <smockle> spectranaut_: That’s all the PRs since TPAC.
17:41:09 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues
17:41:57 <smockle> Topic: Remaining new issue triage
17:42:14 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2345
17:43:13 <scott> scott has joined #aria
17:43:17 <smockle> jcraig: This is follow-up to Rahim’s issue (linked)
17:43:29 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2343
17:44:21 <smockle> aardrian: The documentation for the `<abbr>` (element) and `abbr` (attribute) is confusing.
17:45:21 <smockle> scott: I tried to resolve this in 2019. The mappings in the spec have always been wrong. Help is welcomed.
17:45:41 <smockle> aardrian: I was going to file a separate issue about mapping and naming. Thanks for validating this is an issue.
17:46:53 <smockle> spectranaut_: I’ll assign Adrian to the previous issue and close this one as a dupe.
17:47:09 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2337
17:47:59 <smockle> spectranaut_: We already discussed the PR related to this issue.
17:48:11 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2350
17:48:22 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2324
17:48:56 <smockle> aardrian: This will rollup into the larger table work I’m doing.
17:49:16 <smockle> spectranaut_: That is it for ARIA issues; moving on to other repos.
17:49:24 <pkra> a few more:
17:49:24 <pkra> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/237
17:49:24 <pkra> https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/565
17:49:24 <pkra> https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/564
17:49:25 <pkra> https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/563
17:50:08 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/237
17:50:40 <smockle> aaron: We discussed this at TPAC; people were generally in favor.
17:51:16 <smockle> aaron: Rather than requiring `aria-actions`, we can detect these nested-controls scenarios.
17:51:36 <smockle> matt_king: Does this depend on `aria-actions`?
17:52:02 <smockle> aaron: It depends on the actions interface of the platform (e.g. IAccessibleAction), not on `aria-actions` itself.
17:52:31 <smockle> aaron: ATs will need changes to make use of this.
17:52:45 <smockle> matt_king: Those changes would be in line with whatever we do to support `aria-actions`?
17:52:56 <smockle> aaron: Yes; it’s the same mechanism.
17:54:18 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/565
17:55:08 <smockle> spectranaut_: Is there anyone we should try to get feedback from, at this stage? Did we talk about focusgroup at TPAC?
17:55:24 <smockle> jcraig: We talked about it in the context of carousels, and the inertness side-effect.
17:55:47 <smockle> keithamus: This is being discussed in the OpenUI community groups, but may have stalled.
17:56:07 <smockle> aaron: This issue can be closed; there is no mapping required. It’s a keyboard navigation behavior.
17:56:31 <smockle> spectranaut_: And that keyboard behavior would be specified in HTML.
17:57:22 <smockle> scott: I don’t agree, based on the testing I’ve done, e.g. automatic forms mode. Hyperlinks in a focusgroup trip up NVDA/JAWS. We may need an object attribute.
17:57:35 <smockle> spectranaut_: I’ll agenda this for further discussion.
17:57:42 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/564
17:58:02 <smockle> spectranaut_: Agenda’d.
17:58:10 <smockle> https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/563
17:58:45 <smockle> aaron: Mozilla is doing this already; Chrome isn’t yet. When you navigate to a page, you can jump directly to specific text, similar to a named anchor, but better.
17:59:30 <smockle> aaron: We have some mappings, though using an undocumented property (AXHighlight) for Mac, and nothing for UIA.
18:00:26 <smockle> jcraig: I’ll look at the Mac mapping.
18:00:45 <smockle> zakim, make minutes
18:00:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', smockle
18:01:01 <smockle> zakim, end meeting
18:01:01 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Rahim, smockle, filippo-zorzi, pkra, katez, melsumner, ChrisCuellar, Daniel, scott, Adam_Page, aardrian, CurtBellew, StefanS, jocelyntran,
18:01:04 <Zakim> ... keithamus, jcraig
18:01:04 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
18:01:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/10-aria-minutes.html Zakim
18:01:12 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, smockle; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
18:01:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
18:02:47 <smockle> zakim, depart
18:03:11 <smockle> rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/10-aria-minutes.html smockle
20:21:34 <ChrisCuellar> ChrisCuellar has joined #aria
20:32:27 <ChrisCuellar> ChrisCuellar has joined #aria