Meeting minutes
<dmurph> Link to presentation: https://
<octogonz> Zakim present+ Pete Gonzalez (octogonz)
<HowardWolosky> Not publicly accessible
<xiaoqian> +1
<dmurph> https://
dmurph: installed web apps: attempt to describe the problems we've seen.
struggles, companies, apps. What is happening today?
If you know about any other struggles, do let dan know!
going through agenda, covers things like goals for user and dev, until where did it all go wrong.
web apps exist for more than a decade
devs can create cross-origin native like apps.
users can custumize how they want to use the sw in their life
90k unique installs seen by more than 50 users
Goals with web apps: 1- Devs should meet user expectations. (rich experiences, OS integration, etc)
2- users should choose the exp they want. Install/not install. All should be in the control of the users, including installing a website as an app
3- UAs can enhance the experience. autofill, translate, etc.
slide with link to useful articles about fugu features.
(still dmurpH) talking about shortcuts, as a cross-platform capability
WCO! allows the app to control more of the titlebar area
kinda like the native app
examples of installable sites: youtube, whatsapp, zoom, figma, vscode, social networks etc
final bg bits: url within scope, and app scope definition
so whats the world like today
apps with landing pages, login pages (same origin, sometimes not, sometimes redirects... etc), product home page, document pages
apps generally are combinations of these type of pages.
showcasing tab mode on chromeos. as a new feature
installation goals:
_theres not an app store for apps on the web
_theres no authority for upgrading for example
_launching the app should opent he expected home page
_developers could be able to craft this experience
sometimes theres a site restructure, changes to support a better update. etc etc. the web changes
How does this work today?
Showcsing install flow in Safari and Chrome
introducing the web manifest
-defines an entity and a unique id for that entity
manifest scope:
manifest properties (list some web app features)
the web is based on an origin-security model
manifet entity has to be the same origin as the document
for security
(still dmurph)
not all pages have a manifest scope for example, login pages
talking about some weirdness around manifest files
WHERE DID ALL GO WRONG?!
redirection: lots of redirection from login pages that mess up install flows.
asyn manifest link happen. a manifest link gets called after the load
cross-origin apps: due to differetn top level domains or different subdomains
we have a solution called scope-extensions that solves nost of the cases. still working through TAG
…
networ errors for manifest: not obvious for developers.
a big thing is non recoverability of 'bad' installs
for exampl, its very easy to install a single page Meeting page in google meet instad of the app
what if web content wants to become a web app after it has been installed?
dan ended with 2 versions of gmail, one of them doesnt get the new features to the manifest.
relative urls; broken icons, manifest hosted in different places
invalid scope
manifest not in every page
manifest without intrinsic sizes
manifest that dont parse...
…
its not obvious to the developer
no way to automate and test these thing
worst case users are installing multiple gmail clients
future stuff would not work on these broken ap either
(still dmurph)
devs generally want to know if they should show an install button
does any one here have a problem with installed web apps
(ben) firefox not supporting install
(pete) there seems to be a lack of flagship apps. it would be great to know about those
(vincent) agrees with perception
(dmurph) devs might not wanna say that the app is a web app
web can be flacky, work offline, and an app can be trusty.
dmurph showing examples of web apps.
(pete) electron has a website and advertises this as a for developers)
(Natasha) netflix is a pwa, many docs in webapps
(vincent) branding has been PWA. not a 1:1 relation between PWA and installable
but its the closests.
(pete) where's the isntallable web apps tshirt? somebody can make an sdk to make installable app
(natasha) pwabuilder helps you turn a website to an app
<scheib> Related to perception etc, https://
(rob) pwa is an incremental step on top of a web site
(rob) some people want the pwa exp to be like native
(natasha) bundling runtime with the web app comes at a cost
(natasha) lets be more strategic
pwa-dev@chromium.org is a good channel for feedback
(felipc) web apps communiation platform. has a pwa, elecron app
(felipc) native apps can change UX from isntall to open. web apps cant
(felipc) (...)
<octogonz> https://
(felipe) thre area a lot of things that get in the way of a nice install experience
<NatashaGaitonde> Great to hear octogonz
(dmurph) install detection, led by ms,
(dmurph) scope extensions also int he works
some stuff that can help with the experience
(dmurph) navigation capturing and protocol handling
promoting other same origin app installs
theres a way of hacking an install button
swapping the manifest theyre serving and clicking the button or swapping the manifest back
people are doing this
TAKEAWAYS:
- general app taxonomy & common behaviours like redirection
- gotchas: we need to live with them
- when creating new APIs, thses gotchas should be kept in mind
asides:
id a developer opt in to an app experience we wil always prioritize this
the user has also thecapability to crate manual apps
its great the experience can be created
you can also create a shortcut
but shortcut != app
-end of presentation-
(ben)is there a TR for installable web apps
(dmurph) closest is manifest spec
<NatashaGaitonde> https://
(vincent) for web app devs advocacy within the web apps group is very effecgive at motivating the other browser vendors
edge + chrome the most motivated
nice to see safari as well picking up some concept
(dmurph) love comment from devs in specs and explaiers to support these powerful use cases
(pete) prob with elecron is you need to trust whoever made the app
(ben) CEO wouldnt care about the security issue so much)
(dmurph) you need to make the website anyway
(dmurph) anything blocking the recommending we want to know
(pete) if I haf FF install an app and another browser isntall a app do we get confsion of multiple "same" apps?
<HowardWolosky> The "download" version of it starts to go into the IWA territory
<octogonz> Very informative discussion, thanks for sharing! 👏