Meeting minutes
<tzviya> Date: 2024-06-14
<wolfgang> I see you, but I have currently nos sound
Chairing the CG
Tzviya: I sent a list compiled with Amy's help
… any ideas?
Graham: it isn't clear in which W3C activities each of these are involved
Tzviya: there's a filter for that
… remember that anyone can join the CG
… we need at least one more chair; chairing is time-consuming and needs to be shared by at least two people
… one of the role of the chairs is to be cheerleaders to get things done between meetings
Wendy: chairing is mostly admin
Tzviya: we need a functional CG [for the health of the activity]
Wendy: if there are others you know who you think might be interested, [please talk with them]
Tzviya: please look at the list and consider who would be great candidates to chair
Wolfgang: I do intend to continue as a chair of the CG but request assistance, especially with a colleague who has experience at the business level
Updates about outreach to other organizations
Liisa: Brian is very amenable to discussing co-branding a series of meetings with BISG
… perhaps an hour on a monthly basis
… Leslie proposed a 10-15 minute report followed by open dialogue
… Brian has given us a proposal for a series of meetings August - December
… Leslie has provided feedback and we're discussing possible topics
Tzviya: e.g. someone talking about EAA
Liisa: and audio spec; who is using it an how, what else could we do with audio
… we have 3 topics for 5 months
… haven't yet set timing
Tzviya: who do we need to talk with about co-branding?
Ivan: we should involve Comm
… Coralie is very good at these things
Ralph: Agreed, must involve comms
ACTION: Liisa contact W3C Comm
<ivan> -> Coralie's email <coralie@w3.org>
George: I am participating in BISG Metadata Accessibility work
… the Publishing CG with Avneesh as TF lead is developing the user experience guide
… we expect to have a draft out soon
… this is going to be really important to BISG, BIC, and publishers in general
… it's of course involved with the EAA
… Canada has adopted the language of the EAA
… in April the US Department of Education issued a ruling that will go into effect over the next 2 years that imposes stricter requirements for a11y on websites and content
… we have a lot of opportunities to bring web and EPUB accessibility to the forefront
… it would be great to jump on those opportunities
Bill: in terms of topics with BISG, try to opt for more-specific
… e.g. "accessibility" as a topic is less specific; "EAA" as a topic will get a lot of interest
<Zakim> wendyreid, you wanted to clarify that
Bill: also accessibility metadata as a topic would be of great interest
https://
Wendy: regarding Canada, it did not adopt EAA; it did adopt EN 301 549
… this is part of the Accessible Canada Act so it strictly only applies to government entities
… but hopefully it will lead to others
… it is in effect now but the dates for the Accessible Canada Act are, I think, 2030
<Ralph> s/entitities/entities
Liisa: George, do you want to make metadata a11y a part of the series of co-branded conversations with BISG?
… one of Brian's subtopics under a11y is metadata
… it sounds like what the TF is doing may work well as a part of this series
George: yes, I think that would be great
… the a11y metadata is also being brought forward in the NISO a11y series that is running every Thursday
… a11y metadata is super-important
… Brian has asked Richard and me about the a11y quickstart guide they published 5-6 years ago and is not being maintained
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask if you want ideas
Tzviya: Liisa, do you want other ideas outside of a11y?
Liisa: of course
Tzviya: identifier management is of interest
… Ivan or Heather [Flanagan] could talk about that
Bill: the Quickstart guide to which George referred was developed by Robin Seaman
… BISG owned the document but it was bequeathed to DAISY
… with Robin's passing that document has become out of date
Graham: we have programmed into our October mini-conference in Frankfurt a session on a11y metadata
… that will incorporate the guide to display a11y metadata
… Gregorio agreed to speak at this
Tzviya: perhaps there's an opportunity for larger co-branding
Graham: we can reach out to a few others of our members
… when BISG comes to talk about a11y metadata we'd be happy to get involved with that particular session
Wendy: I was going to reach out to Booknet Canada and still plan to do that
Tzviya: they have a new director who is amazingly capable
Wendy: I want to let her get settled before I reach out
Tzviya: I know that W3C Comm is very busy right now too
TPAC workshop event
Tzviya: the Publishing WG is on the TPAC schedule for Monday
Tzviya: the WG has developed an agenda; it has plenty to do if we decide not to have a workshop event
Wendy: see ^^ link where we are gathering ideas
… there is a lot we could potentially discuss
… we need to narrow down to things we _can_ discuss
Avneesh: the WG's agenda is very full; I was concerned it has too much to digest
… considering a workshop agenda, let's split: WG business and cross-pollination
… we need to published a spec and we need to discuss some controversial things f2f
… for a workshop, the ideas from Leslie and Graham are what we should consider
… we should not expect publishers to attend TPAC
… we should socialize with our contacts what we could do and discuss at TPAC what we want to do considering our possible collaborations
Wendy: sorry, I have to drop for another meeting
Liisa: the question on what we need to do to be able to make bigger changes to EPUB; is that a good conversation for TPAC?
Avneesh: it could be a good conversation but it needs a lot of preparation
… we should be talking with the people in BISG and other places first and then come back to TPAC with the information we have gathered
Liisa: there's a publishing community conversation to have
… what does it mean to say "everything needs to be backward compatible"? Does this mean you won't touch your catalog
… there's a W3C conversation on scope of charter
… some ideas are shut down saying "we're not chartered for that"
… we need to culturally start to put our concerns aside for a moment
Avneesh: this gets into strategic side of things
… these discussions are happening in the WG
… if the discussions happen in the CG they won't be shut down
… and then we can float a new charter for EPUB work
Ivan: "shut down" is a little bit strong
… we have the possibility to recharter the WG at any time if we decide new things we want to do in EPUB
… we should not consider this an absolute no
… whether the discussion happens in the WG or CG is a bit immaterial
… if a TF says there is support for something and the publishers and manufacturers show support we can propose to recharter; I would not be concerned about that
George: Avneesh and Ivan said most of what I'm thinking
… if there were to be a TF in the CG to talk about this that would help to revitalize things
… I suggest that TF lead be one of the co-chairs of the CG
… I also think the word "shut down" is a bit too strong but [rechartering] seems to be such a heavy lift that it was scaring people
… the question of backward compatibility needs to be address right at the start
… if there is negativity from the industry on doing things that are not backward compatible we would have our hands tied too much
Bill: one of the constraints is that the conversation ends up being about EPUB
… most people think EPUB is pretty much done
… but there's a lot that still needs to be done for the Web
… so maybe we don't rock the boat on EPUB but discuss what else needs to be done
… protection from deep fakes and other things are coming to the fore in discussion; these don't have much to do with EPUB
… except for university press most scholarly publishing has little to do with EPUB
Tzviya: in the issue that Wendy cited Brady commented on our hands being tied
… you might want to take a look at that
… EPUB will have to evolve at some point; we'll have to figure out how
… backward compatibility is one goal but it has to evolve as the world evolves
Bill: I don't think we should stop evolving EPUB if there are good ways to evolve it
… but there are a lot of people involved in publishing at large that are interested in issues that are not EPUB issues
Liisa: I don't think EPUB is done. I do think people have given up to some extent because implementations are not as good as they should be
… Brady would be a good person to be involved in such a TF
George: in education we have EPUB going well. We also have LMS, QTI, and integration of publisher content in the LMS
… it might be EPUB, it might be modules the publisher is using
… I'd love to see us do a better job of integrating that accessible content in HTML and EPUB
… we do EPUB testing but we haven't gotten into LMS testing
… I see that as a needed area of work
… this is pure HTML
Ivan: Liisa's comment about reading systems makes me think
… W3C writes specifications; I wonder if we can somehow improve the situation with RS problems
… can we push the implementers to be more standards-compliant?
… is there anything we are in a position to do to improve the situation?
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask about working with 1EdTech
Liisa: embarass
Tzviya: the IDPF had a pretty good working relationship with IMSGLobal
… the new organization might be good to work with
George: Markus was there, left, and may be back
… DAISY is able to participate
… and Rick is on their board
Tzviya: if we want to work on QTI I think we'd want to work with them
<tzviya> a/IMSGLobal/1EdTech formerly IMS Global
Bill: Rick is the right person to talk with about 1EdTech
… and getting Norton involved would be advantageous
Avneesh: we discuss a lot of ideas, some get traction and some don't
… why not focus on getting an incubation TF going?
… when an idea is raised that can't be done under the current WG charter, direct the conversation to an incubation TF
Tzviya: I agree but every time we raise this the question is "who will lead the CG?"
… I need suggestions for leaders of the CG
Shinya: regarding the incubation TF, is there a concrete proposal or discussion that should be discussed with the WG?
… I don't recall that we shut down any ideas or proposals
… if there are concrete proposals we should discuss possible charter changes
… I haven't seen any concrete proposals
Tzviya: concrete proposal for what?
Shinya: new features, incubation TF
Avneesh: when there are concrete proposals and its clear there is support then it is appropriate to propose charter updates
… the purpose of the Incubation TF is to discuss ideas [before they are concrete]
Ivan: the WG has had lots of discussion on webtoons
… the reason for a TF is that the WG only meets once a month
… it's difficult to sustain discussion with only one meeting every four weeks
… a TF can meet more often and have more concentrated work
… the webtoons discussion has been going on for a while but is evolving very slowly
… regardless of whether the webtoons discussion leads to rechartering or not
Ralph: has the WG requested a large enough space at TPAC for a "workshop"-sized meeting?
Tzviya: yes: Wendy and I requested space for 20-25 people, which should be sufficient
[adjourned]