W3C

– DRAFT –
MATF 1 May 2024

01 May 2024

Attendees

Present
AA, Carol, Devanshu, JJ, Joe_Humbert, julianmka, Mick, quintinb, RacheleD, RacheleD4
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
quintinb

Meeting minutes

Scribe

<JJ> IRC cheetsheat: https://github.com/w3c/matf/wiki/IRC-Cheatsheet

<JJ> nominate a scribe

<JJ> nominate a scribe

How WCAG 2.2 Relates to Mobile

Touch Target size (2.5.8)

JJ considering moving comments for sheet in a data repo (git)

<Joe_Humbert> I like github, because people can add comments and they are visible

I like Github too, we could use issues for each criteria

<Devanshu> +1

<Mick> +1 for Github, and creating documents for each criteria, will be easier to manage and track.

<julianmka> could we move out of the spreadsheet and into Github fully? I would rather not track 2 places.

agree julianmka

<Joe_Humbert> +1 for not 2 places

I am nothing if not redundant

<Joe_Humbert> I was seeing if anyone was in the queue

JJ confirms to use GitHub

How do we use GitHub? JJ to propose

2.5.8 Target Size

Joe: Pixel conversion: CSS pixel is the native density for the platform.

JJ: We should align with WCAG2ICT

<Mick> I asked this question recently in the MATF slack channel. The consensus was the same - to see 24 pixels being equivalent to whatever the appropriate unit used for other platforms - for iOS this is 24 points and for Android this is 24 density-independent pixels. This is an approach Deque follows as well I believe.

AA: should we just use mm on the screen, as specified by NN?

<Devanshu> WCAG2ICT notes: w3c/wcag2ict#293 (comment)

JJ: Android can modify density, so perhaps mm can be difficult

Joe: Can't verify, but it's consistent across devices and settings

<Mick> Would points or density-independent pixels be more helpful to developement teams then using mm?

quintinb: Users can define what they want the physical size to be, the separation is intentional

julian: Should we just follow the platform guidelines? Fingertips are variable in size and not precise. Shouldn't we be advocating for large touch targets?

Rachele: Shouldn't we just reference the AAA requirement?

Joe confirms

JJ: (AA) Spacing can be 24 from another target and then size can be anything

Sorry that was a reference to WCAG_AA not AA the user

<Mick> As an observation - we tried previously pushing Apple and Android sizes to our teams and got so much pushback from designers about it being too big.

<AA> I will make sure to add my name as AAK, to avoid confusion quintinb

ty AAK

quintinb: we also need to be considerate that Google does allow for 32x32dp in seemingly certain cases

JJ: Relying on public documentation can be problematic as the internal algo doesn't necessarily follow the 48x48 rule

https://github.com/google/Accessibility-Test-Framework-for-Android/blob/c65cab02b2a845c29c3da100d6adefd345a144e3/src/main/java/com/google/android/apps/common/testing/accessibility/framework/checks/TouchTargetSizeCheck.java#L164

JJ: We may have to figure out what Google's math is - maybe someone can look later

JJ A lot of people asking how to check size

quintinb: ADB can be used to extract the ally tree and the density, which can calculate the dp size

<Mick> A physical ruler or sending screenshots and using likes of photoshop. Neither massively accurate but have struggled to find other methods when not having access to code in audits.

JJ: but we need to be understanding of what tools auditors need

Joe: Uses the scanner with larger requirements because it reports the details of what is wrong

<Mick> That's clever Joe_Humbert

agree - thanks Joe - I think I failed to understand previously

Mick has done an audit against 2.2

They have been sending screenshots and measuring with a ruler

1.3.5 Input Purpose

<Joe_Humbert> there is no way to set a custom size in Apple's Accessibility inspector. Also I think the inspector rules are closed source

JOE: In HTML if a first name is registered, but no autocomplete doesn't work then it's a fail

JJ: Should we just add guidance on attributes and how to validate if they are available

Joe: keyboard types might be easier

Joe: Will try research how he can find out how to find autofill attributes

Joe: Where can testers put this dummy data

JJ: will look into MarkDown as a format for the success criteria

Joe: Do we know anyone who has experience writing tests

<julianmka> iOS can set autofill for Safari from any contact. Wondering if that setting propagates throughout apps.

<JJ> Quintin: has experience writing automated accessibility tests

<JJ> JJ: also has experience writing these; with source code access you can certainly extract input type related properties. Without source code access it's harder, believes it's possible on Android but probably not on iOS.

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Maybe present: Joe, julian, Rachele

All speakers: AA, JJ, Joe, julian, quintinb, Rachele

Active on IRC: AA, Carol, Devanshu, JJ, Joe_Humbert, julianmka, Mick, quintinb, RacheleD4