– DRAFT –
(MEETING TITLE)

Updated Work Statement - broader scope

jj: the work statement has been reviewed in the taskforce, outside and by W3C staff… conclusion from this review round is that we'd need to broaden scope to the mobile space, to include web applications and webviews

jj: sharing the link…

<jj> Work Statement: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q5ggj1BedAKlxugFn9xxahKbKgZeeZsxytdw-o1HQsE/edit

jj: I didn't have time yet to process all the notes…

jj: one is to change native applications to mobile applications

jj: where we say native applications

jj: for the 5th bullet in Scope of Work, where we talk about adding native mobile techniques, we removed that entirely

jj: for the timeline, it looks like we have been a little optimistic, we've almost reached april so phase 1 is over, but still has some work items left

jj: any comments on the scope?

<jj> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q5ggj1BedAKlxugFn9xxahKbKgZeeZsxytdw-o1HQsE/edit

hdv: on the 6th item, which kind of resources would we be updating?

jj: basically the mapping document and other sources that is in the Google Drive, as well as the old wiki. Mostly documents outside the W3C domain

MATF Meeting Matrix - picking a day/time

jj: 13 people filled out the meeting matrix

jj: quite a lot of people are in GMT+1

jj: 2 are in +8 and a few people in -5… we might have to do two different meetings, one in even and another in odd weeks

jj: I'll do some suggestions to figure out what to do

[ checking who's in the matrix ]

[ introductions from Rachel DiTullio and Quintin Balsdon ]

[ introduction from Tori ]

Guidance structure

jj: there are multiple options for structure… we could structure it like WCAG itself, or we could list considerations like it is done in the current mobile accessibility working group note

jj: what would be most usable for you?

tori: I was thinking… there are considerations for mobile that need to start at design or even concept… and then there's issues specific to implementation, where it is most important that things stay accessible

<QuintinB> What I think is missing is some kind of tagging system, for quick topics and summary. However, I do like the exiting structure because it lends itself to being parseable and can be made into a diagram like Intopia's map: https://intopia.digital/articles/intopia-launches-wcag-2-2-map/

QuintinB: some kind of tagging system on each of the criteria would be very useful, so that it is more clear what kind of role is involved with identifying and fixing the issue

QuintinB: would help us create smaller chunks of data… you can represent WCAG in a JSON file which allows you to restructure it as expanding guidelines, I like that

QuintinB: we might have to reasses A/AA/AAA based on what the platform is

QuintinB: the other thing I would think of is bubbling up to a more generic WCAG and then have a web content WCAG and an mobile WCAG

<QuintinB> Evinced MCAG: GetEvinced/mcag

tori: I wonder if there's a value to dissect if we want a mobile specific set of guidelines to also include user agent guidelines?

tori: being explicit is something current WCAG does not always do

tori: to make it explicit and specific would be very helpful

jj: agreed

jj: are there other guidelines, public or internal ones at work, that people use?

JamieHerrera: the Human Interface guidelines and Material UI guidelines are helpful

JamieHerrera: one thing that's a gap in WCAG I think, important for mobile apps, is the content grouping piece

JamieHerrera: it's an example of an opportunity to fill gaps where WCAG is not enough

jj: I think Kim knows better, but the previous MATF has done suggestions for best practices and success criteria in WCAG 2.*

Kim: what's most useful is to come up with user examples, there are some of those in WCAG

<jj> Mobile Accessibility Mapping: https://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-accessibility-mapping/

Kim: these are quite old, the ones n on the current website, but this is the kind of very clear example that would be useful, eg this user has this need because of this and this

Kim: some of them are in https://www.w3.org/TR/IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20/mobile

<jj> Mobile Accessibility Examples from UAA: https://www.w3.org/TR/IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20/mobile

JamieHerrera: seems to be web examples

Kim: yes, but could do something like that for native mobile too… useful to write examples like these and get them in the documents

QuintinB: I really appreciate in all of WCAG that it is technology agnostic

jj: wearables could be interesting to look at too

Jamie: would hesitate to add that to the current iteration though, could be a completely different task force

Jamie: to help us stay focused

jj: we could make that explicit too

<QuintinB> Google's CSUN slides: https://sites.google.com/view/csun2024/google-sessions

RacheleDiTullio: we went to a session on keyboard testing. Thought it was pretty interesting that keyboard shortcuts are underdocumented

jj: agreed that iOS and Android lack a support page or something that has all the keyboard shortcuts

QuintinB: and they aren't labelled very well in the interface either

Jamie: ctrl+tab is really the workhorse for keyboard movement in iOS

Jamie: arrow keys are also helpful to get around but not great for getting to individual actions. Also not clear for users

<jj> CSUN resources: Keyboard accessibility testing on mobile devices by Moaan Ahmed, Sam Ogami and Purva Sane (slides) https://github.com/workday-accessibility/accessibility-eval/blob/main/keyboard.md https://workday.app.box.com/s/ygn1057yknn71mjz9v7tn4aoy32k25dl Mobile Content Accessibility Guidelines by Illai Zeevi https://getevinced.github.io/mcag/ Building Accessible Mobile Products by Perrin Anto https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yadfEBQJfIIK7EUwu-IQIs4[CUT]

<jj> Keyboard accessibility testing on mobile devices by Moaan Ahmed, Sam Ogami and Purva Sane (slides) https://github.com/workday-accessibility/accessibility-eval/blob/main/keyboard.md https://workday.app.box.com/s/ygn1057yknn71mjz9v7tn4aoy32k25dl

<jj> Mobile Content Accessibility Guidelines by Illai Zeevi https://getevinced.github.io/mcag/\

<jj> Building Accessible Mobile Products by Perrin Anto https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yadfEBQJfIIK7EUwu-IQIs4PWcnoXh-Y/view

<jj> Lessons Learned from Mobile App Accessibility Testing by Rachele DiTullio https://racheleditullio.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Lessons-learned-from-mobile-app-accessibility-testing.pptx

<jj> Mind the Gap: Navigating Accessible Web & Mobile App Design by Julian Kittelson-Aldred https://1drv.ms/p/s!Ausu1Z4YE7u3gZweP6dDCr9uG4KSvg?e=ifKjV4

<jj> Perspectives on Phone Use from People with Limited Dexterity by Lauren Winston and Kristi Saney https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1MzRqVgZCjnCcICEnR8oi3vBqkazU71Wm/edit#slide=id.p1

<jj> State of Native Mobile Accessibility Standards & Testing by Joe Humbert https://app.box.com/s/m08lijr6a59wc251mwi4lhpdbkekx056/file/1472738656276

Jamie: one thing to look at for this group would be to look at which WCAG criteria don't apply to apps

Jamie: I know there's some on appt.org

<QuintinB> The keyboard GitHub link from CSUN: https://github.com/workday-accessibility/accessibility-eval/blob/main/keyboard.md

Jamie: another would be to look at the intended experience for the app user that is very different from desktop

Jamie: another issue we look at regularly is how designers make a UI fit on a smaller screen, sometimes a different kind of experience people are looking for, not just a smaller screen version

Jamie: so something around designing for mobile is lacking in the current space

<QuintinB> Keyboards on mobile also present a lot of friction for developers because learning all the tricks for speedy navigation can be overwhelming and feel like a small win. It's not our job to teach them but acknowledging the lift with resources could be useful

jj: there is also a lot of difference between vendors and how they deal with keyhboard accessibility… potentially we can publish some of those resources and/or add them to our list of external resources

<QuintinB> At least having some guideline about being consistant with the platform might be useful

Jamie: what would the process be for former members to potentially come back? we may be able to get participation from folks at Apple and Google who were former MATF

Jamie: if the focus would include mobile app accessibility

jj: seems like not everyone is aware we focus on native now and have been restarting since the start of this year

jj: to make it a success we'll need people from the larger companies, especially the ones who have their own guidelines

jj: we'll probably also get people from testing companies to join

jj: interesting topics today re keyboard accessibility. Probably also want to look at mapping specific properties between mobile and web eg how names are computed

jj: another interesting topic is localisation of labels in languages other than English

kim_patch: as someone who's used voice to text on computers for a long time, wanted to add it could be so much better

kim_patch: if the user could control which elements they are using that would make it a lot better

kim_patch: speech is less mature than it could be

Jamie: a lot of the accessibility labels are intended as hint text, in which case it often doesn't work well

kim_patch: re keyboard shortcuts…there was this project around standardising labels/shortcuts for voice… I don't think all of it is up anymore but there is some WCAG history in an attempt to make it not about keyboard only

kim_patch: seems like that's even more needed today,with mobile