Meeting minutes
Agenda
<kaz> Agenda for today
Ege: I want to talk about the managment topic
… otherwise I think tomorrow we can go with the Binding templates
Minutes review
<kaz> Feb-14
Ege: they are good
… we discussed profile
… for the whole call
… any remarks?
… minutes approved
TM namespace
Ege: Kaz to update the redirection/content negotiation setting for the TM namespace.
wot-resources PR 20 - TD 1.1 Resource Finalization
wot-thing-description Issue 1807 - TM namespace not active yet
toolchain requirements
<kaz> PR 1975 - Toolchain requirements
Ege: we should agree on which requirements in general
Ege: I want to record the "wishes" we have
… I started from the outputs
… linkML can be a type of intput but we need a sort of templates
… with it we don't support human readable text
… then we need to agree on Overall Requirements
… we should allow people with no expertise to contribute to our work
… even with the documentation is not really clear
… wishes don't need to be realistic
Cristiano: well know libraries can help to onboard
… and observability is very important. It means that if something goes wrong we should be able to debug it quickly
Mahda: +1
… especially regarding the template language
… stll is difficult and used by a minority
Kaz: the direction is good, but we might want to clarify the input and output for each smaller module one by one
… you already mentioned index.html as target
… we can think about a combination of smaller multiple tools which handle one output type at a time
… I think combination of smaller tools would be easier to maintain than one huge tool
Ege: the current tooling is a bunch a small tool together
… the problem is that we can't maintain a single source of truth
… it would be possible if the tools are really chained together
Kaz: are you expecting some specific programming language? that's ok but at this stage we should focus on input/output parameters and the data format
… and should document the input and output for each smaller tool
Ege: the data format is dependent on the tool
… but the data model can be decided beforehand
Kaz: we can start with bigger chunks
… for example, the starting point of the tooling is generating an index.html from index.template.html and turtle files
… and think about the output like an index.html with ontology diagrams and tables
Ege: I'm afraid that using that approach we will end up with the current situation
Mahda: not mixing up languages, also keep an eye on dependency between the files
… an example is a TTL file files that has HTML tags in the descriptions
Cristiano: +1
Mahda: it would be great to have documentation about CI tooling
… we can check the configuration files
… but it is time consuming
Ege: we can use your report
… but we can improve it
Daniel: combining tools and chaining them is good, but we need to nail down the requirements one by one because some tools might require different format
… I have as example the typescript definitions
… they are created starting from the schema
… we need to check that
Kaz: I agree with Daniel
… I don't want to use (or don't think we can maintain) the current complicated toolchain. So I suggested we clarify the requirements for the tooling based on ordinary software design approach. For that purpose, we should clarify the input and output for each tool separately rather than describing everything at once as a huge toolchain.<
Ege: we don't know the ideal case
Kaz: however, we do know what we have as the initial input, e.g., index.template.html and TTL files, and the final output, e.g., index.html including the diagrams and tables
Ege: we don't know it yet
Kaz: from Mahda's diagram we have the list of input files and output files
… However, we can't tell which files are used as input by which tool to generate which files as output for which tool easily.
… Given what we've been discussing, I'm getting confused and wondering what we want to do as a group. Do we want to understand the current complicated toolchain and continue to use it? Or do we want to create anoter set of tools for easier maintenance?
Ege: we are studying the current toolchain to create a better one
… and simpier
… but for that we have to understand the possibile tools that we can use
… the output is important
… the inputs is up to us to choose
Kaz: It sounds to me that we should have a dedicated tooling discussion separately rather than having quick discussion as part of the ordinary TD calls.
Ege: I think everybody has understood what to do and only Kaz doesn't understand it. I'd like to stop the discussion now.
Kaz: Well, given the discussion so far, I think saying only Kaz doesn't understand what to do and stop the discussion durryn is impolite :(
Project Management
Ege: there were some unclear topics
Ege: this is the proposed approach
… In that case, we should also have things like tooling or testing etc
… no changes to the assigment table
… one thing I wanted to clarify is that we have a sort of lifecycle
Ege presents the lifecycle
Ege: I added also some explainer text
… and then we can sort it as usual
Ege: Koster already approved
… there are project managment tools that can do this automatically
… but with github we have to to it manually
Cristiano: what do mean by automating ?
Ege: example if you want to split a big issue that depends on other is not really clear
… github has simplier concept we have to do more manual work
Kaz: thanks for the diagram, it would be better to clarify the mapping between the state within the diagram and the step described by the text.
… for example, both the diagram state and the text can say "Step 1. GitHub Issue created".
… minor categorisation -> categorization
luca: in github you can create a checklist and create dependent issues
Ege: yes, I know it is fine but it is basically linking
Ege: everybody else is fine with the proposal?
… I remove the proposal and make it a decision?
… any other proposals?
… I will go on
Backlog
<kaz> wot-scripting-api Issue with "wait-for-td"
Ege: we have backlog with scripting API
… Daniel created the relevant issues
… he linked back to scripting API
… we can remove it from the backlog
Cristiano: thank you really much Daniel
Kaz: During the Scripting API call the other day, Daniel mentioned that he needed to talk with Ege about how to manage those issues, so I'm wondering about the feedback from that discussion.
… Basically, this is good for inter-TF collaboration, so please continue to discuss it.
Ege: ok
Ege: anything else?
[adjourned]