W3C

– DRAFT –
Verifiable Credentials Working Group Telco

21 February 2024

Attendees

Present
brent, DavidC, decentralgabe, dlehn, dlongley, dmitriz, ivan, manu, meier, mircea, pauld, pdl-asu, Przemek, selfissued, TallTed, will
Regrets
-
Chair
brent
Scribe
manu, selfissued

Meeting minutes

<ivan> Date: 2024-02-21

brent: Welcome to the VCWG call

manu: I responded to a privacy review by Ping

Jennie: I'm Jennie Meyer. I'm here with Digital Contract Design.

PING Review Report

<manu> w3cping/privacy-request#127 (comment)

manu: PING did a review on Bitstring Status List 2 weeks ago

<manu> Response here: w3cping/privacy-request#127 (comment)

manu: including by Martin Thompson of Mozilla
… I responded about an hour ago
… Nothing new came up
… The spec could talk more about correlation and tracking with the identifiers used
… Please look at the response to them
… I've requested that they raise issues for things they want us to address

manu: If they don't raise issues, we may have to read the tea leaves

Work Item Status Updates/PRs

decentralgabe: We've been making excellent progress on jose-cose
… We have 10 remaining issues for Before CR - 4 with PRs
… We hope to get to CR by the end of the month or not much later

brent: PR #239 adds securing with JWS

selfissued: Gabe has done good work so that rendering of examples are consistent.

brent: People are encouraged to review the issues and PRs

<manu> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pulls

manu: I processed PRs on VCDM. We have another set that appear to be non-controversial.

<manu> Jeffrey has reviewed the algorithm alignment work here: w3c/vc-data-integrity#244

brent: Are there other VCDM PRs that could benefit from discussion in the group?

PR Review

ivan: There's also the item on media types we should look at

<decentralgabe> w3c/vc-data-model#1439 should be ready for merge, will do after this call

w3c/vc-data-model#1441

ivan: I don't want to get into a discussion of the details of the diagram here
… The question is whether we want to keep it

manu:

manu: We should keep it. I've referred to it.

<manu> lifecycle of VC: https://w3c.github.io/vc-data-model/#concrete-lifecycle-example

manu: We should update the diagram and move it to the lifecycle section

decentralgabe: +1 to what Manu said
… I find the diagrams very useful

<manu> +1 to "more pretty pictures please"

decentralgabe: More pretty pictures please

brent: Where in the DM is the diagram currently?

<manu> https://w3c.github.io/vc-data-model/#life-cycle-details

ivan: Let's keep it
… I propose that I edit the diagram to incorporate comments from David Lehn, etc.

<decentralgabe> we also have https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model-2.0/#concrete-lifecycle-example without a diagram

ivan: Later we could move it, but I don't want to mix the two issues
… I'm happy to do the required changes

brent: We should probably combine sections

<ivan> For reference, the new version of the diagram is (temporarily) here: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/vc-data-model/validation-on-diagram/diagrams/ecosystemdetail.svg

manu: We need to figure out what we're doing with these sections
… Let's start by updating the diagram first
… Then later editorially move things around

<ivan> +1 to manu

brent: The PR that modifies the diagram will be merged after Ivan updates it
… I will open a PR proposing combining sections

w3c/vc-data-model#1440

ivan: We had a call on this issue. We decided to change the term "Media Type" to "Encoding Format".

<ivan> w3c/vc-data-model#1408

ivan: Discussions are ongoing
… We shouldn't spend that much time on this

manu: The goal is for activity streams to be able to use this without changes
… We may just be incompatible with the activity streams context
… If changing this one thing doesn't fix it, then we shouldn't make the change, since the problem wouldn't be addressed
… The way activity streams and schema.org define the context are neither right
… We probably don't want to do this
… Maybe we should define IANA media type and have it refer to the IANA registry
… I'm leaning towards that being my preference
… The downside is that we're creating yet another term

ivan: Note that the two things you mentioned are orthogonal to one another
… What term should we use?
… Should we define it ourselves?

<TallTed> ianaMediaType was my idea, fwiw. its domain & range remain vital.

ivan: The definition of a data type for media types can be added
… It's not a huge deal
… I question altogether whether we should do
… This property won't be widely used anyway

<dlongley> another option is to go with `encodingFormat` today and then potentially add `ianaMediaType` or `mediaType` in a future WG

selfissued: It would be strange to change from a term that is well known "media type" to "encoding format", which we'd be entirely making up.

ivan: We are not making it up, schema.org defined it.

selfissued: That's not authoritative for us.

ivan: That's debatable.

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask Dmitri if there are plans for another AS context?

manu: Dmitri is on the call and is chairing the Social Web Community Group

dmitri: We're the ones shepherding the activity streams formats

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to propose a concrete path forward.

dmitri: We want to be able to sign activity streams objects

manu: We shouldn't use schema.org
… We shouldn't use activity pub
… We should point to IETF and IANA and get this right once and for all
… It probably shouldn't go in our vocabulary
… It could go in our security vocabulary
… We should call it something that people understand

<ivan> IANA pointer

ivan: I have put this pointer into the minutes

iana: From an RDF point of view, would the pointer be the URL of the property?
… I don't really like that
… Instead we can define a media type for RDF
… This is where the string format is defined
… We define a property in one of our vocabularies

manu: I wouldn't object to that
… But we'd be repeating what the social web and schema.org did and we'd be creating another property

ivan: I don't know exactly how activity streams defined it
… If its compatible with IANA, we could use it
… If Dmitri gives me a pointer to the definition, I could look at it

It's defined here: https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-mediatype

dmitri: What's the objection to reusing the mediaType definition?

manu: They made it too specific to activity streams

dmitri: That could be changed so it can be applied to any domain

ivan: That would be perfect

selfissued: It's not clear to me, are we taking a dependence on an externally defined vocabulary?

dmitri: We could change that

manu: We already point to a bunch of externally defined vocabularies
… We'd be reusing the URL they use for the definition
… This would be more correct than using the schema.org encoding
… We could actually call this media type

dlehn: ?Question?
… Equivalency checking

agree with Dmitri, I don't think this is an issue to re-use AS as long as it's aligned.

dlehn: How much do people do full RDF processing?

dmitri: Zero

brent: The proposal to raise an issue on the activity streams repository sounds right
… For our PR, the consensus is to not merge that PR

ivan: I'm happy to close it
… Who has the action to raise the PR in the right place?

brent: I'm willing to do it but I'm not sure I could accurately reflect what we want.

ivan: I'm willing to do it

VCDM Issue Processing

<brent> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-asc

The activity streams repository is https://github.com/w3c/activitystreams/issues/

w3c/vc-data-model#1254

manu: This text is in the internationalization write-up
… I think it's fine where it is

<ivan> +1 to manu

manu: It doesn't need to be in the Security Considerations
… I think we should mark the issue pending close

brent: Any objections to that?
… No objections

w3c/vc-data-model#1098

brent: This is about setting up a mini registry inside the spec
… What are the next steps?

DavidC: The issue sets it out clearly
… It's a question of semantics
… If something is already defined, what does it mean to more formally define it?

manu: The distinction is between a term being defined, referencing a URL, and writing text about the definition
… For example, we may reserve render method but we won't write normative text about it

DavidC: I can buy that
… We have a table of reserved properties anyway
… We can say that "these terms are reserved" and may be defined later

+1 to that suggestion

w3c/vc-data-model#1197

DavidC: I can create a PR

selfissued: The term "public key" is well known, "verification material" is not, why would we do this?

manu: There are verification methods that don't use public keys.

brent: A response to this issue entails going through the spec and inspecting the places we use the term "public key"

w3c/vc-data-model#995

manu: I am against continuing this discussion

brent: Marking "pending close", per the previous minutes

brent: If we are pretty sure we're not going to get to something, we should close it.
… I don't have confidence that a future group will pick up on leftovers we leave them

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/progress/progress on jose-cose/

Succeeded: s/Lane/Lehn/

Succeeded: s/;/:/

Maybe present: dmitri, iana, Jennie

All speakers: brent, DavidC, decentralgabe, dlehn, dmitri, iana, ivan, Jennie, manu, selfissued

Active on IRC: brent, DavidC, decentralgabe, dlehn, dlongley, ivan, manu, pdl-asu, selfissued, TallTed, will