W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

25 January 2024

Attendees

Present
Addison, atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
xfq

Meeting minutes

Agenda Review

Action Items

<gb> Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #69, #68, #67, #66, #65, #64, #53, #47, #43, #35, #33, #18, #16, #12, #11, #8, #7, #4

<addison> #69

<gb> Action 69 ask PLH to add a WG feature to the gh bot (on aphillips) due 2024-01-25

<addison> close #69

<gb> Closed action #69

<addison> #68

<gb> Action 68 follow up with florian about testing with kindle (on aphillips) due 2024-01-25

<addison> #67

<gb> Action 67 add some comments to CSS #8511 (on r12a) due 2024-01-23

<addison> close #67

<gb> Closed action #67

<addison> #66

<gb> Action 66 fix base direction vs. paragraph direction in string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-01-18

<addison> #65

<gb> Action 65 contact Daniel and check the Ethiopic word boundary situation (on r12a) due 2023-12-26

addison: we can discuss #66 if we have time today

<addison> #64

<gb> Action 64 Make list of HTML issues for February 22 call with WHATWG (on aphillips, xfq)

<addison> #53

<gb> Action 53 come up with a set of information CSS want the i18n group to provide support for generic font families (on frivoal, fantasai) due 2023-11-01

<addison> #47

<gb> Action 47 make the CSSWG aware of Warichu (on frivoal) due 2023-10-04

<addison> #43

<gb> Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due 2023-09-18

<addison> #35

<gb> Action 35 make the edits of CSS #5478 (on fantasai) due 2023-08-30

<addison> #33

<gb> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)

<addison> #18

<gb> Action 18 Have informal explanation sessions about counter style translations with csswg members (on frivoal, fantasai) due 18 Jul 2023

<addison> #16

<gb> Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips) due 1 Jan 2024

<addison> #12

<gb> Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues raised by google (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023

<addison> #11

<gb> Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal) due 18 Jul 2023

<addison> #8

<gb> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023

<addison> #7

<gb> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

<addison> #4

<gb> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a) due 27 Jul 2023

Info Share

r12a: Sid might work on this in March

addison: I'm gonna have a MessageFormat open house
… on Feb 20
… I'll post the details

r12a: I have a request for Bert
… we can raise an issue on IRC and it will go to GitHub issue list
… add a comment to a GitHub issue
… for action 23, add blah blah blah comment

Bert: that is possible

<Bert> gb, help note

<gb> Bert, the command "note #nn: text" or

<gb> … "note yyy#nn: text" or "note xxx/yyy#nn: text" tells

<gb> … me to add some text to GitHub issue nn in repository xxx/yyy.

<gb> … The colon(:) is optional. If you omit xxx or xxx/yyy, I will

<gb> … find the repository in my list of repositories.

<gb> … You can also use a URL: "note https://gith.../issues/nn text"

<gb> … See also "gb, help use" for creating a list of repositories.

<gb> … Aliases: comment, note.

<gb> … Example: note #71: This is related to #70.

Bert: you have to explicitly name the issue or the number that you want to add the comment

r12a: oh, so you can already do it

Bert: you can, yes

<Bert> gb, help?

<gb> Bert, I am a bot to look up and create GitHub issues and

<gb> … action items. I am an instance of GHURLBot 0.3.

<gb> … Try "gb, help commands" or

<gb> … see https://w3c.github.io/GHURLBot/manual.html

https://w3c.github.io/GHURLBot/manual.html#comment

RADAR Review

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

addison: Bitstring Status List v1.0
… another VC spec
… unless anyone objects I'll take this one

Pending Issue Review

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending

w3c/i18n-activity#1815

<gb> Issue 1815 Discuss i18n-glossary and Infra harmonization (by aphillips) [pending] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] [s:infra]

addison: I had to revert exporting UTF-8
… because exporting it reminded us of why we didn't have it exported before
… if conflicts with a definition in Encoding
… so I created an issue in our repo to check
… WHATWG people believe that Infra should be used by everyone
… as we've discussed previously, that turns out not to work

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1813

<gb> Issue 1813 I18N Considerations needed? (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [s:vc-bitstring-status-list]

addison: for some people

addison: about #1813, they have an I18N Considerations section

<gb> Issue 1813 [not found]

addison: which points to another I18N Considerations section

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1812

<gb> Issue 1812 Encoding of `statusListIndex` (by aphillips) [pending] [s:vc-bitstring-status-list] [non-I18N]

addison: @@
… let's close this

addison: it's not really an i18n issue
… maybe a little bit
… "expressed as a string" should be encoded a bit more clearly
… In particular, is the number decimal or hex?
… it will be an i18n-tracker issue

Publish WD of timezone to TR

<addison> w3c/timezone

<addison> https://w3c.github.io/timezone/

<addison> https://www.org/TR/timezone

<addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/timezone/

r12a: the www.org link used to always work for me on my Mac and it doesn't seem to be working anymore

addison: the note was published in 2011
… I'd like to obsolete the note and start having the ED to be the /TR version

r12a: we're not gonna create a new document altogether

addison: no

xfq: any particular update you'd like to do for the new version?

addison: Temporal hasn't landed at JS
… IETF sedate is still not quite landed
… so there's some time
… I'm not satisfied with all the text 100%
… nothing is sacred in this version yet, but I think it's complete enough that people could point back to it
… and we have issues with people like HTML

r12a: is there anything in the old version that hasn't migrated to the new version but should have done?

addison: everything in the old version is somewhere here
… maybe rewritten, but it's all here

r12a: there are a bunch of guidelines
… do we have all those still intact?

addison: they all fitted into mustard somewhere

addison: I can double check that

r12a: you probably need a 'History of this document' section as well
… to see what's changed

addison: OK
… Acknowledgements has a little bit of history
… I'll make another pass
… do you want to review it again?

JcK: I'll review it
… do you want me to just send you a note?

addison: yes, please

Prep for WHATWG Call

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3AAgenda%2BI18N%2BWHATWG

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#778

<gb> Issue 778 Validating internationalized mail addresses in (by himorin) [tracker] [s:html] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#954

<gb> Issue 954 Fix #4562: add support for internationalized email addresses (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#955

<gb> Issue 955 Add &nnbsp; entity for U+202F (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [i:encoding] [spec-type-issue] [mlreq] [alreq] [hlreq] [amlreq] [afrlreq] [i:inline_features_punctuation] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

addison: #955 about adding new named entities to HTML

<gb> Issue 955 [not found]

addison: I want the EAI issue finished
… I believe we all think HTML wants to land is a string with an @ sign an possibly a dot
… maybe you're checking the right hand side for domain-ish

JcK: I would certainly rather have a relatively opaque syntax

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1575

<gb> Issue 1575 A tag to display date and/or time to the user in his preferred format. (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:loc_time] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

addison: #1575 is about displaying dates and times

<gb> Issue 1575 [not found]

addison: what I would like to see is that they provide the same kind of controls @@
… which is lang
… recreating that disaster is not something we would want to have happen

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1645

<gb> Issue 1645 : Time vs. duration (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:loc_time] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

addison: #1645 is sort of the same thing

<gb> Issue 1645 [not found]

addison: except that they want to allow people to enter durations

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1590

<gb> Issue 1590 For attributes which can contain a mix of languages, provide markup for language of parts (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:bidi_markup] [t:markup_elements_attributes] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

addison: @@hour cycle@@

addison: it's about providing markup and attributes for language

<addison> whatwg/html#8280

<gb> Issue 8280 For attributes which can contain a mix of languages, provide markup for language of parts (by ChasBelov) [i18n-tracker]

addison: what do we want to do here?

r12a: it's an issue
… the question is what the solution would be
… I can think of a couple of possibilities
… one is to allow more than one @@
… that's kind of complicated
… the other one would be to allow markup inside alt
… which is also probably not gonna fly

addison: solve corner cases
… because it's not very common that you need to have multiple alt
… @@2
… do we want to have a separate issue for that?
… separate issue for tagging attributes with a language

r12a: we actually solved the problem with XHTML 2
… but HTML5 doesn't have it

JcK: I remember discussion about a very similar set of issues

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1691

addison: we can discuss it with them

<gb> Issue 1691 "The directionality of an attribute of an HTML" seems weird? (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:bidi_markup] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

<addison> whatwg/html#9146

<gb> Issue 9146 "The directionality of an attribute of an HTML" seems weird? (by fantasai) [i18n-tracker]

addison: this one is from fantasai
… I haven't read it that deeply but it looks like something we might care about

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1697

<gb> Issue 1697 Specify expected behavior for when users change input field directionality (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:bidi_markup] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

addison: here's another one from last year
… which is about contenteditable

xfq: if the user changes the language of the input field, what will happen?

r12a: I don't think the issue is about input fields
… it's about how to control direction in elements that are set to contenteditable

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1743

<gb> Issue 1743 Disabled dates for input type=date (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:loc_time] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG]

r12a: the issue is about when you're typing text into contenteditable
… how do you manage direction then?

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1815

<gb> Issue 1815 Discuss i18n-glossary and Infra harmonization (by aphillips) [pending] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] [s:infra]

addison: I'll remind everyone that we have a TAG issue open
… because we recommend the polar opposite of what they do
… about UTF-16 code unit strings
… my recollection from the RDF conversation was they couldn't use Infra
… because thier definition is incompatible with things like XML
… so they don't want to take the definitions from Infra
… couple of challenges
… one is our glossary like all of our documents is not normative
… which is probably good, because we change it a lot
… but we do face things where people want to reference to our thing and it's not normative
… @@3
… I have nothing against Infra
… but I don't think it's complete for our needs

xfq: and sometimes our definition explains things more clearly

addison: we put a lot of effort in that
… we can discuss this with them in a phone call
… we have 66 issues against HTML
… i'm not tagging them all with agenda+
… we have only a vanishingly small number of needs-resolution issues and they're pretty old
… almost everything else is tracker
… and we might want to think about which of these we want to promote

AOB?

addison: anything else you guys want to do today?

[adjourned]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s|https://www.org/TR/timeze||

Succeeded: s/it's about just describing how it works for input fields/it's about how to control direction in elements that are set to contenteditable/

Maybe present: r12a, xfq

All speakers: addison, Bert, JcK, r12a, xfq

Active on IRC: addison, atsushi, Bert, JcK, r12a, xfq, xfq_