14:53:47 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 14:53:51 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-i18n-irc 14:53:57 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 14:54:02 Chair: Addison Phillips 14:54:08 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20240125T150000/ 14:54:08 clear agenda 14:54:08 agenda+ Agenda Review 14:54:08 agenda+ Action Items 14:54:09 agenda+ Info Share 14:54:11 agenda+ RADAR Review 14:54:13 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 14:54:16 agenda+ EAI on the Web 14:54:18 agenda+ Prep for WHATWG Call 14:54:20 agenda+ AOB? 14:54:28 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:55:27 agenda+ Publish WD of timezone to TR 14:57:44 present+ Addison 15:02:05 JcK has joined #i18n 15:02:15 present+ JcK 15:03:06 zakim, who is here? 15:03:06 Present: Addison, JcK 15:03:08 On IRC I see JcK, RRSAgent, Zakim, addison, xfq, r12a, mbinzo, gb, florian, fantasai, csarven, matrix638, eemeli, Github, imlostlmao, James1, gonzu_15, clafase, MojGraph, 15:03:08 ... joraboi445, BoKilgore, SintayewGashaw, hadleybeeman, Mek, koji, alastairc, Rachael, bigbluehat, astearns, cwilso, Bert, hsivonen, agendabot 15:03:16 present+ Bert, Richard, Fuqiao 15:04:42 zakim, take up agendum 1 15:04:42 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:04:43 agenda? 15:04:50 scribe: xfq 15:05:34 zakim, take up agendum 2 15:05:34 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:05:41 Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #69, #68, #67, #66, #65, #64, #53, #47, #43, #35, #33, #18, #16, #12, #11, #8, #7, #4 15:05:45 #69 15:05:45 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/69 -> Action 69 ask PLH to add a WG feature to the gh bot (on aphillips) due 2024-01-25 15:05:58 close #69 15:05:59 Closed -> action #69 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/69 15:06:05 #68 15:06:05 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/68 -> Action 68 follow up with florian about testing with kindle (on aphillips) due 2024-01-25 15:06:14 #67 15:06:14 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/67 -> Action 67 add some comments to CSS #8511 (on r12a) due 2024-01-23 15:06:30 close #67 15:06:32 Closed -> action #67 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/67 15:06:34 #66 15:06:34 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/66 -> Action 66 fix base direction vs. paragraph direction in string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-01-18 15:07:04 #65 15:07:05 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/65 -> Action 65 contact Daniel and check the Ethiopic word boundary situation (on r12a) due 2023-12-26 15:07:29 addison: we can discuss #66 if we have time today 15:07:35 #64 15:07:35 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/64 -> Action 64 Make list of HTML issues for February 22 call with WHATWG (on aphillips, xfq) 15:08:03 #53 15:08:04 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/53 -> Action 53 come up with a set of information CSS want the i18n group to provide support for generic font families (on frivoal, fantasai) due 2023-11-01 15:08:10 #47 15:08:11 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/47 -> Action 47 make the CSSWG aware of Warichu (on frivoal) due 2023-10-04 15:08:23 #43 15:08:23 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43 -> Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due 2023-09-18 15:08:24 atsushi has joined #i18n 15:08:42 #35 15:08:46 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35 -> Action 35 make the edits of CSS #5478 (on fantasai) due 2023-08-30 15:08:50 #33 15:08:50 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips) 15:09:02 present+ 15:09:13 #18 15:09:14 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/18 -> Action 18 Have informal explanation sessions about counter style translations with csswg members (on frivoal, fantasai) due 18 Jul 2023 15:09:20 #16 15:09:21 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/16 -> Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips) due 1 Jan 2024 15:09:26 #12 15:09:27 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12 -> Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues raised by google (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 15:09:33 #11 15:09:33 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/11 -> Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal) due 18 Jul 2023 15:09:40 #8 15:09:41 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8 -> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 15:09:46 #7 15:09:47 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023 15:10:00 q+ to ask about a feature improvement for gb 15:10:01 #4 15:10:02 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a) due 27 Jul 2023 15:11:18 zakim, take up agendum 3 15:11:18 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:11:21 r12a: Sid might work on this in March 15:12:42 addison: I'm gonna have a MessageFormat open house 15:12:50 ... on Feb 20 15:13:01 ... I'll post the details 15:13:07 r12a: I have a request for Bert 15:13:39 ... we can raise an issue on IRC and it will go to GitHub issue list 15:13:46 ... add a comment to a GitHub issue 15:14:07 ... for action 23, add blah blah blah comment 15:14:12 Bert: that is possible 15:14:15 gb, help note 15:14:15 Bert, the command "note #nn: text" or 15:14:15 … "note yyy#nn: text" or "note xxx/yyy#nn: text" tells 15:14:15 … me to add some text to GitHub issue nn in repository xxx/yyy. 15:14:15 … The colon(:) is optional. If you omit xxx or xxx/yyy, I will 15:14:16 … find the repository in my list of repositories. 15:14:18 … You can also use a URL: "note https://gith.../issues/nn text" 15:14:21 … See also "gb, help use" for creating a list of repositories. 15:14:24 … Aliases: comment, note. 15:14:26 … Example: note #71: This is related to #70. 15:14:31 ... you have to explicitly name the issue or the number that you want to add the comment 15:14:44 r12a: oh, so you can already do it 15:14:50 Bert: you can, yes 15:15:09 gb, help? 15:15:09 Bert, I am a bot to look up and create GitHub issues and 15:15:09 … action items. I am an instance of GHURLBot 0.3. 15:15:09 … Try "gb, help commands" or 15:15:09 … see https://w3c.github.io/GHURLBot/manual.html 15:15:25 https://w3c.github.io/GHURLBot/manual.html#comment 15:15:43 zakim, take up agendum 4 15:15:44 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:16:09 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1 15:17:25 addison: Bitstring Status List v1.0 15:17:29 ... another VC spec 15:17:39 ... unless anyone objects I'll take this one 15:17:52 zakim, take up agendum 5 15:17:54 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:18:08 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending 15:18:35 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1815 15:18:36 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1815 -> Issue 1815 Discuss i18n-glossary and Infra harmonization (by aphillips) [pending] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] [s:infra] 15:18:46 addison: I had to revert exporting UTF-8 15:19:02 ... because exporting it reminded us of why we didn't have it exported before 15:19:16 ... if conflicts with a definition in Encoding 15:19:26 ... so I created an issue in our repo to check 15:19:54 ... WHATWG people believe that Infra should be used by everyone 15:20:08 ... as we've discussed previously, that turns out not to work 15:20:11 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1813 15:20:11 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1813 -> Issue 1813 I18N Considerations needed? (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [s:vc-bitstring-status-list] 15:20:14 ... for some people 15:20:45 addison: about #1813, they have an I18N Considerations section 15:20:46 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/1813 -> Issue 1813 [not found] 15:21:07 ... which points to another I18N Considerations section 15:21:30 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1812 15:21:30 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1812 -> Issue 1812 Encoding of `statusListIndex` (by aphillips) [pending] [s:vc-bitstring-status-list] [non-I18N] 15:21:36 ... @@ 15:21:39 ... let's close this 15:22:02 addison: it's not really an i18n issue 15:22:07 ... maybe a little bit 15:22:31 ... "expressed as a string" should be encoded a bit more clearly 15:22:35 ... In particular, is the number decimal or hex? 15:23:13 agenda? 15:23:31 ... it will be an i18n-tracker issue 15:23:58 zakim, take up agendum 9 15:23:58 agendum 9 -- Publish WD of timezone to TR -- taken up [from addison] 15:24:13 https://github.com/w3c/timezone 15:24:19 https://w3c.github.io/timezone/ 15:24:49 https://www.org/TR/timeze 15:24:49 https://www.org/TR/timezone 15:25:03 s|https://www.org/TR/timeze|| 15:25:14 https://www.w3.org/TR/timezone/ 15:26:17 r12a: the www.org link used to always work for me on my Mac and it doesn't seem to be working anymore 15:26:45 addison: the note was published in 2011 15:27:23 ... I'd like to obsolete the note and start having the ED to be the /TR version 15:27:31 r12a: we're not gonna create a new document altogether 15:27:33 addison: no 15:29:56 xfq: any particular update you'd like to do for the new version? 15:30:05 addison: Temporal hasn't landed at JS 15:30:27 ... IETF sedate is still not quite landed 15:30:36 ... so there's some time 15:30:50 ... I'm not satisfied with all the text 100% 15:31:16 ... nothing is sacred in this version yet, but I think it's complete enough that people could point back to it 15:31:23 ... and we have issues with people like HTML 15:31:48 r12a: is there anything in the old version that hasn't migrated to the new version but should have done? 15:32:03 addison: everything in the old version is somewhere here 15:32:12 ... maybe rewritten, but it's all here 15:32:54 r12a: there are a bunch of guidelines 15:33:01 ... do we have all those still intact? 15:33:15 addison: they all fitted into mustard somewhere 15:34:02 xfq_ has joined #i18n 15:34:12 scribe+ 15:34:18 addison: I can double check that 15:34:36 r12a: you probably need a 'History of this document' section as well 15:34:39 ... to see what's changed 15:34:43 addison: OK 15:35:02 ... Acknowledgements has a little bit of history 15:35:06 ... I'll make another pass 15:35:14 ... do you want to review it again? 15:35:24 agenda? 15:35:27 JcK: I'll review it 15:35:37 ... do you want me to just send you a note? 15:35:42 addison: yes, please 15:35:49 zakim, take up agendum 7 15:35:49 agendum 7 -- Prep for WHATWG Call -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:36:08 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3AAgenda%2BI18N%2BWHATWG 15:36:58 w3c/i18n-activity#778 15:36:59 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/778 -> Issue 778 Validating internationalized mail addresses in (by himorin) [tracker] [s:html] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] 15:37:01 xfq_ has joined #i18n 15:37:21 w3c/i18n-activity#954 15:37:21 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/954 -> Issue 954 Fix #4562: add support for internationalized email addresses (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] 15:37:29 xfq has joined #i18n 15:37:42 w3c/i18n-activity#955 15:37:42 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/955 -> Issue 955 Add &nnbsp; entity for U+202F (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [i:encoding] [spec-type-issue] [mlreq] [alreq] [hlreq] [amlreq] [afrlreq] [i:inline_features_punctuation] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] 15:38:24 addison: #955 about adding new named entities to HTML 15:38:25 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/955 -> Issue 955 [not found] 15:39:00 addison: I want the EAI issue finished 15:39:21 ... I believe we all think HTML wants to land is a string with an @ sign an possibly a dot 15:39:40 ... maybe you're checking the right hand side for domain-ish 15:39:58 JcK: I would certainly rather have a relatively opaque syntax 15:40:15 w3c/i18n-activity#1575 15:40:16 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1575 -> Issue 1575 A tag to display date and/or time to the user in his preferred format. (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:loc_time] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] 15:40:52 addison: #1575 is about displaying dates and times 15:40:52 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/1575 -> Issue 1575 [not found] 15:41:42 ... what I would like to see is that they provide the same kind of controls @@ 15:41:48 ... which is lang 15:42:12 ... recreating that disaster is not something we would want to have happen 15:42:15 w3c/i18n-activity#1645 15:42:16 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1645 -> Issue 1645 : Time vs. duration (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:loc_time] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] 15:42:31 ... #1645 is sort of the same thing 15:42:32 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/1645 -> Issue 1645 [not found] 15:42:44 ... except that they want to allow people to enter durations 15:42:55 w3c/i18n-activity#1590 15:42:55 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1590 -> Issue 1590 For attributes which can contain a mix of languages, provide markup for language of parts (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:bidi_markup] [t:markup_elements_attributes] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] 15:43:00 ... @@hour cycle@@ 15:44:02 addison: it's about providing markup and attributes for language 15:44:07 https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/8280 15:44:07 https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/8280 -> Issue 8280 For attributes which can contain a mix of languages, provide markup for language of parts (by ChasBelov) [i18n-tracker] 15:44:11 ... what do we want to do here? 15:44:23 r12a: it's an issue 15:44:32 ... the question is what the solution would be 15:44:44 ... I can think of a couple of possibilities 15:45:05 ... one is to allow more than one @@ 15:45:11 ... that's kind of complicated 15:45:23 ... the other one would be to allow markup inside alt 15:45:38 ... which is also probably not gonna fly 15:45:49 addison: solve corner cases 15:46:10 ... because it's not very common that you need to have multiple alt 15:46:35 ... @@2 15:46:42 ... do we want to have a separate issue for that? 15:47:44 ... separate issue for tagging attributes with a language 15:48:22 r12a: we actually solved the problem with XHTML 2 15:48:33 ... but HTML5 doesn't have it 15:49:07 JcK: I remember discussion about a very similar set of issues 15:49:18 w3c/i18n-activity#1691 15:49:18 addison: we can discuss it with them 15:49:18 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1691 -> Issue 1691 "The directionality of an attribute of an HTML" seems weird? (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:bidi_markup] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] 15:49:37 https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/9146 15:49:37 https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/9146 -> Issue 9146 "The directionality of an attribute of an HTML" seems weird? (by fantasai) [i18n-tracker] 15:50:22 addison: this one is from fantasai 15:50:40 ... I haven't read it that deeply but it looks like something we might care about 15:51:33 w3c/i18n-activity#1697 15:51:34 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1697 -> Issue 1697 Specify expected behavior for when users change input field directionality (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:bidi_markup] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] 15:52:00 addison: here's another one from last year 15:52:08 ... which is about contenteditable 15:54:30 xfq: if the user changes the language of the input field, what will happen? 15:54:44 r12a: I don't think the issue is about input fields 15:55:07 ... it's about just describing how it works for input fields 15:55:17 w3c/i18n-activity#1743 15:55:17 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1743 -> Issue 1743 Disabled dates for input type=date (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:loc_time] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] 15:55:24 ... the issue is about when you're typing text into contenteditable 15:55:33 ... how do you manage direction then? 15:55:48 s/it's about just describing how it works for input fields/it's about how to control direction in elements that are set to contenteditable/ 15:55:48 w3c/i18n-activity#1815 15:55:49 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1815 -> Issue 1815 Discuss i18n-glossary and Infra harmonization (by aphillips) [pending] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] [s:infra] 15:56:40 addison: I'll remind everyone that we have a TAG issue open 15:57:04 ... because we recommend the polar opposite of what they do 15:57:12 ... about UTF-16 code unit strings 15:57:44 ... my recollection from the RDF conversation was they couldn't use Infra 15:58:29 ... because thier definition is incompatible with things like XML 15:58:36 ... so they don't want to take the definitions from Infra 15:58:37 ... couple of challenges 15:58:52 ... one is our glossary like all of our documents is not normative 15:59:04 ... which is probably good, because we change it a lot 15:59:24 ... but we do face things where people want to reference to our thing and it's not normative 16:00:08 ... @@3 16:00:08 ... I have nothing against Infra 16:00:17 ... but I don't think it's complete for our needs 16:01:06 xfq: and sometimes our definition explains things more clearly 16:01:42 addison: we put a lot of effort in that 16:01:52 ... we can discuss this with them in a phone call 16:02:02 ... we have 66 issues against HTML 16:02:12 ... i'm not tagging them all with agenda+ 16:02:45 ... we have only a vanishingly small number of needs-resolution issues and they're pretty old 16:02:54 ... almost everything else is tracker 16:03:09 ... and we might want to think about which of these we want to promote 16:03:12 agenda? 16:03:25 zakim, take up agendum 8 16:03:25 agendum 8 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot] 16:04:25 addison: anything else you guys want to do today? 16:04:30 [adjourned] 16:04:36 rrsagent, make minutes 16:04:37 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-i18n-minutes.html xfq 16:04:43 rrsagent, make log public 16:04:44 rrsagent, make minutes 16:05:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-i18n-minutes.html xfq