Clear Language/WCAG 3 coordination

18 jan 2024


Jan, JohnRochford, julierawe, kirkwood, tburtin

Meeting minutes

Zoom url can be found here: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga

<lisa> am i in the right zoom room?

Lisa, I think you're in the wrong room. Use the regular COGA url: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga

Kirkwood, please use the regular COGA url: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga

<lisa> we logged in in again. same problrm

<lisa> me, jan and john

<lisa> maybe u are in the wrong room?

<JohnRochford> Julie is about to visit you.

<JohnRochford> In your Zoom room.

LISA AND KIRKWOOD, PLEASE USE THE REGULAR COGA URL: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga


<lisa> i clicked the link. we all have rejoined but it is just Jan John and me.

<JMcSorley> If you're in a Zoom meeting, go to "Participants" and copy the link of the meeting you're in and put that link into IRC so that we can follow that link.

<tburtin> https://understood-org.zoom.us/j/85319701004?pwd=i9SzsiuWEkpKxTZK00H7skDNgPSOjG.1 Is what I have

<JohnRochford> https://understood-org.zoom.us/j/85319701004?pwd=i9SzsiuWEkpKxTZK00H7skDNgPSOjG.1

WCAG 3 card sorting exercise due January 29th


Totally optional if you want to do this exercise

Update on Tuesday's AG meeting: equity will be included but as separate review. And some comments about user testing needing to be part of assertions.

Tiffany said there wasn't time in the AG meeting to process the comments and questions

Lisa said she will pass Tiffany's comment along

Julie said one success was getting COGA members to add comments and thumbs-up in Github, which we'll need to do more of moving forward

John R: We want to make sure people new to the organization can engage in the process

Tiffany: There's a ton of research in Silver and need to make sure that stays included and how we can get our voices heard

Tiffany: I know they're working on making the agenda available ahead of time, but they're not using plain language

Tiffany: I need that plain language and vocal conversation to understand what the true topics are

Lisa commented on companies that are W3C members who are opposed to testing that takes more time or resources

Tiffany: I feel like COGA concepts can be given reasonable criteria to be reproducible, to be put into the actual guidelines

Tiffany asked about the difference between assertions and compliance

John R: From the beginning of Silver, the intent has been to develop criteria that makes it easier for businesses, even small ones, to improve accessibility

John R: To make it easier for businesses to use the guidelines

<JohnRochford> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag-3.0/

Lisa: reliability and complexity are criteria they can use to throw things out

Lisa: when you come with user testing, that doesn't work

Lisa: With an assertion, you can say followed guidelines or process for user testing

Lisa: But will that be reliably done by another tester?

Lisa: The complexity is a killer—does it take a reasonable amount of time to test with the tools we have now, that's not fair

Lisa: Equity is a word that works for us

Julie: If all the cognitive stuff only gets included as assertions, that's an equity problem

Lisa: We don't have to think about how many. We have to think about are the needs met.

Lisa: If someone can't participate because of your choices — it's got nothing to do with how many

Lisa: Have you given users what they need so they can use it — that's what equity has to be about

Here is the Github thread about this issue: https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/34

Jan: This is a technique for marginalization

<kirkwood> “if it’s fully accessible to all these different groups then it is equitable” -Lisa

And here are the minutes from the AG meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ag-minutes.html

Internationalization next steps

Lisa: Need to separate WCAG 3 from next version of Making Content Usable

Lisa: We need a volunteer to go through Making Content Usable to see areas other than Clear Language that need internationalizing

Lisa: For WCAG 3/Clear Language, we're meant to provide input, not develop everything

Lisa: AG can set up the group to develop the tests, including in English

Lisa: We can provide expert review

Lisa: We can help direct it, but let AG do recruiting of language experts in different localities

<lisa> Equity needs to be about have different user groups had their needs met at a similar level so that they can use the content. It does not mater the number of issues. Content is inaccessible when people with disabilities who could theoretically use the content, can not use it, because of design choices of the content provider. The accessibility has to be similar for the different groups of disability, at any conformance level. For one groups accessibil[CUT]

Jan: I'll start an email thread to help get the comment ready

<lisa> For one groups accessibility needs to be considered bronze and and other group to be included at silver would be a disaster.

<lisa> (Irrc cut out the last line

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).


No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: julierawe

Maybe present: Julie, Lisa, Tiffany

All speakers: Jan, Julie, Lisa, Tiffany

Active on IRC: JMcSorley, JohnRochford, julierawe, kirkwood, lisa, tburtin