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16:00:00 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-coga-irc
16:00:00 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:00:01 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:00:06 <julierawe> chair: julierawe
16:00:19 <julierawe> Meeting: Clear Language/WCAG 3 coordination
16:00:32 <julierawe> date: 18 jan 2024
16:00:52 <julierawe> Agenda+ WCAG 3 card sorting exercise due January 29th
16:01:01 <julierawe> Agenda+ Internationalization next steps
16:01:09 <julierawe> Agenda+ Clear Language next steps
16:01:17 <julierawe> present+
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16:06:36 <JohnRochford> present+
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16:06:46 <tburtin> present+
16:06:50 <julierawe> Zoom url can be found here: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga
16:06:53 <lisa> am i in the right zoom room?
16:06:53 <kirkwood> present+
16:07:19 <julierawe> Lisa, I think you're in the wrong room. Use the regular COGA url: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga
16:07:45 <julierawe> Kirkwood, please use the regular COGA url: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga
16:08:23 <lisa> we logged in in again. same problrm
16:08:31 <lisa> me, jan and john
16:09:05 <lisa> maybe u are in the wrong room?
16:09:28 <JohnRochford> Julie is about to visit you.
16:09:36 <JohnRochford> In your Zoom room.
16:11:31 <julierawe> LISA AND KIRKWOOD, PLEASE USE THE REGULAR COGA URL: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga
16:12:08 <julierawe> JAN, LISA, KIRKWOOD: PLEASE LEAVE THAT ZOOM ROOM AND JOIN US IN THE REGULAR COGA URL: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga
16:13:49 <lisa> i clicked the link. we all have rejoined but it is just Jan John and me.
16:14:38 <JMcSorley> If you're in a Zoom meeting, go to "Participants" and copy the link of the meeting you're in and put that link into IRC so that we can follow that link.
16:15:42 <tburtin> https://understood-org.zoom.us/j/85319701004?pwd=i9SzsiuWEkpKxTZK00H7skDNgPSOjG.1 Is what I have
16:15:55 <JohnRochford> https://understood-org.zoom.us/j/85319701004?pwd=i9SzsiuWEkpKxTZK00H7skDNgPSOjG.1
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16:18:20 <JMcSorley> present+ Jan
16:18:42 <julierawe> agenda next
16:18:56 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:18:56 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- WCAG 3 card sorting exercise due January 29th -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:20:26 <julierawe> https://uxd-library.optimalworkshop.com/optimalsort/062osikf
16:20:46 <kirkwood> present+
16:25:21 <julierawe> Totally optional if you want to do this exercise
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16:30:42 <julierawe> Update on  Tuesday's AG meeting: equity will be included but as separate review. And some comments about user testing needing to be part of assertions.
16:30:57 <julierawe> Tiffany said there wasn't time in the AG meeting to process the comments and questions
16:31:14 <julierawe> Lisa said she will pass Tiffany's comment along
16:32:04 <julierawe> Julie said one success was getting COGA members to add comments and thumbs-up in Github, which we'll need to do more of moving forward
16:32:51 <julierawe> John R: We want to make sure people new to the organization can engage in the process
16:33:27 <julierawe> Tiffany: There's a ton of research in Silver and need to make sure that stays included and how we can get our voices heard
16:33:58 <julierawe> Tiffany: I know they're working on making the agenda available ahead of time, but they're not using plain language
16:34:12 <julierawe> Tiffany: I need that plain language and vocal conversation to understand what the true topics are
16:37:08 <julierawe> Lisa commented on companies that are W3C members who are opposed to testing that takes more time or resources
16:38:14 <julierawe> Tiffany: I feel like COGA concepts can be given reasonable criteria to be reproducible, to be put into the actual guidelines
16:38:50 <julierawe> Tiffany asked about the difference between assertions and compliance
16:39:35 <julierawe> John R: From the beginning of Silver, the intent has been to develop criteria that makes it easier for businesses, even small ones, to improve accessibility
16:40:00 <julierawe> John R: To make it easier for businesses to use the guidelines
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16:42:14 <JohnRochford> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag-3.0/
16:43:32 <julierawe> Lisa: reliability and complexity are criteria they can use to throw things out
16:43:42 <julierawe> Lisa: when you come with user testing, that doesn't work
16:44:13 <julierawe> Lisa: With an assertion, you can say followed guidelines or process for user testing
16:44:22 <julierawe> Lisa: But will that be reliably done by another tester?
16:46:24 <julierawe> Lisa: The complexity is a killer—does it take a reasonable amount of time to test with the tools we have now, that's not fair
16:46:30 <julierawe> Lisa: Equity is a word that works for us
16:49:48 <julierawe> Julie: If all the cognitive stuff only gets included as assertions, that's an equity problem
16:50:43 <julierawe> Lisa: We don't have to think about how many. We have to think about are the needs met.
16:51:20 <julierawe> Lisa: If someone can't participate because of your choices — it's got nothing to do with how many
16:51:52 <julierawe> Lisa: Have you given users what they need so they can use it — that's what equity has to be about
16:52:51 <julierawe> Here is the Github thread about this issue: https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/34
16:53:19 <julierawe> Jan: This is a technique for marginalization
16:54:53 <kirkwood> “if it’s fully accessible to all these different groups  then it is equitable” -Lisa
16:55:33 <julierawe> And here are the minutes from the AG meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ag-minutes.html
16:56:53 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:56:53 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Internationalization next steps -- taken up [from julierawe]
17:01:38 <julierawe> Lisa: Need to separate WCAG 3 from next version of Making Content Usable
17:02:04 <julierawe> Lisa: We need a volunteer to go through Making Content Usable to see areas other than Clear Language that need internationalizing
17:02:38 <julierawe> Lisa: For WCAG 3/Clear Language, we're meant to provide input, not develop everything
17:04:43 <julierawe> Lisa: AG can set up the group to develop the tests, including in English
17:04:49 <julierawe> Lisa: We can provide expert review
17:05:17 <julierawe> Lisa: We can help direct it, but let AG do recruiting of language experts in different localities
17:05:40 <lisa> Equity needs to be about have different user groups had their needs met at a similar level so that they can use the content.  It does not mater the number of issues. Content is inaccessible when people with disabilities who could theoretically use the content, can not use it, because of design choices of the content provider.  The accessibility has to be similar for the different groups of disability, at any conformance level. For one groups accessibil[CUT]
17:06:01 <julierawe> Jan: I'll start an email thread to help get the comment ready
17:06:17 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
17:06:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-coga-minutes.html julierawe
17:08:28 <lisa> For one groups accessibility needs to be considered bronze and and other group to be included at silver would be a disaster.
17:08:39 <lisa> (Irrc cut out the last line
17:08:47 <lisa>  rrsagent, make minutes
17:08:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-coga-minutes.html lisa
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