<CarlosD> scribe: Wilco
Carlos: We have one 1-week CFR
JY: Can be merged today, waiting for today's call
Carlos: Text-spacing rewrite from
JY, due today as well, merges tomorrow
... One from Gaicomo, changes requested from Wilco
Gaicomo: I've responded to the feedback.
<CarlosD> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2007
Carlos: Another one from Gaicomo, 2038 has ended, but has merge conflicts
JY: I'll look at the conflict
Carlos: Github has a view for resolving changes
Gaicomo: I'll have a look
Carlos: 2017 and 2020 are ready for merging too
Wilco: Will merge them today
Carlos: Haven't moved forward since TPAC. Need more F2F meetings
JY: Worked on the role permitted
rule which created some discussion about things not in the acc
tree. We may need to bring this to the group
... I've also worked on target size, fleshing that out a bit.
It's been slow going. I'll work on test cases next
Mark: I came across some things
on an old wiki on target detection algorithm.
... There are strange things in the algorithm
... I'll put a link to it in the PR
... I thought I had responded to all the feedback.
<CarlosD> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/1382
Mark: I'll take a look at PR 1382
again, see if anything more needs to be done
... We've also been investigating iframe focus. It's quite
complicated and very browser + screen reader specific
... We'd need to document what the differences are. I think
there is still a problem with applicability and tab index.
Gaicomo: Not much updated.
There's the change for large text for CJK languages.
... There are updates I don't know how to solve. I don't have
context, and don't know what we can do there.
<giacomo-petri> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2121
Wilco: I can see if Jemma can help
Mark: I think there were layout
guides published for both Japanese and Chinese. Its worth
looking if there's one for Korean as well
... I'll have a look to see if I can find something for
that.
Dan: I have two PRs open. 2075 I'll talk to Kathy about that. For 2099, I added some examples, I have one reviewer and need a few more
Todd: I've been reviewing PRs
Helen: Getting help from Dan to
get a test page
... Need to talk to JY about one of my PRs
Wilco: Been out, will pick up WCAG 2.2 migration soon
<CarlosD> scribe+ CarlosD
<CarlosD> Wilco: Working of getting the rules format to the first public draft
<CarlosD> Wilco: 8 new rules approved by AGWG
Helen: Trevor's making a lot of
progress on how to write subjective applicabilities.
... We can start moving forward again.
... If anyone wants to help out writing manual testing
rules.
... The more people the better. We have a lot that can't be
automated.
Carlos: If you have suggestions for manual rules that would be helpful.
Helen: There's so much, I have lots of ideas.
Carlos: I think a list of potential rules would be helpful. We had them during the WAI-Tools project, which helped
Helen: We'll get it done, not sure if it'll be before EOY
Mark: The problem is that
role=presentation on iframe is problematic because in some
situations iframes are focusable
... Focusable behavior is browser-specific, and depends on AT
too.
... We'll be producing different tests for different browsers /
AT.
... We may have to dig into browser code to figure out what
they do exactly with focus.
... Once we have that we can move forward. We should wait to
get all the data.
JY: ARIA in HTML says
specifically that presentation is allowed on iframe
... For interactive elements it seems that ARIA says this
should be allowed.
Mark: Focusable issue is
complicated. Is it the iframe that's focusable, or is it the
body of the element inside the frame?
... In some cases it's the document, and that wouldn't trigger
conflict resolution
... We need more data to say exactly.
... That it's allowed is deliberate.
... You do need to allow focus in the document to allow
scrolling. Letting stuff be focusable in there is
deliberate.
<CarlosD> Wilco: We brought this rule to AG and they were against prohibiting role presentation in iframes
Mark: You're probably going to
run into non-interference type conformance criteria if you
prevent iframes from being focusable.
... There is a rule detecting negative tabindex.
<Jean-Yves> https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/act/rules/akn7bn/
Mark: I think the right answer is to get all behavior documented and see what different effects are
JY: There might be an edge case on scrollable iframes without interactive elements we haven't covered
Mark: If anyone has any other suggests of what to test let me know in the issue
Wilco: I know Safari behaves differently when its empty from when it has content
Mark: I'll dig into the browser code for that
Carlos: Another issue from Mark about aria-activedescendant
<CarlosD> Wilco: If there are no active-descendents its not a problem.
<CarlosD> ... that is why I did not include them when writing the rule
JY: I don't think
aria-activedescendant is ever required. Even if it creates no
accessibility issue, it's an author requirement
... On the role is permitted rule, ARIA says don't do it, but
when you do it creates no accessibility error.
... The question is whether we want that or not.
... I don't have a strong opinion, but the case for flagging it
is that ARIA says to
Mark: It depends, are the ACT rules check ARIA conformance, or only if it causes a11y issues
JY: We could have a rule specific
for aria-activedescendant, that could be the solution.
... Personally I'm all for flagging ARIA conformance, people
misuse ARIA.
... But I get the argument.
<CarlosD> Wilco: This is similar to aria-errormessage that is not required until you have an error message on the page
<CarlosD> ... this is similar, and it's easier to build it dynamically, instead of having pre-built elements with an ID
JY: if its easier to do it with a non-existing, we could help ARIA to make the change.
Mark: I don't have a strong opinion on this. It has been a late addition to ARIA 1.2, happy with it the way it is at the moment.
Carlos: Everyone agrees with the resolution. We'll suggest to ARIA to change the author requirement on this.
JY: There's an ARIA issue closely
related to this.
... I think we can close the issue and reference ARIA.
This is scribe.perl Revision VERSION of 2020-12-31 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/to AG when/to AG and/ Default Present: dan-tripp, Helen, CarlosD, Jean-Yves, Wilco, giacomo-petri, Todd, mark Present: dan-tripp, Helen, CarlosD, Jean-Yves, Wilco, giacomo-petri, Todd, mark Found Scribe: Wilco Inferring ScribeNick: Wilco WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]