Meeting minutes
<wendyreid> date: 2023-10-10
<wendyreid> https://
<wendyreid> https://
<Ralph> previous 26-Sep
Dispute Resolution document
<wendyreid> w3c/
wendy: Confusion between dispute resolution doc vs PWE page on w3.org
<wendyreid> https://
wendy: Both docs fill the same role, but Dispute Resolution doc is newer, and wrote w the goal of describing how to resolve.
… Called it "dispute reolution", but meant CoC violation resolution.
… Also wanted to describe the roles of people involved, ombuds, mediators, investigators.
… Written as a draft. Needs tightening.
… Goal is to have a clearer description of what happens when something goes wrong.
David: I find the title leads in a misleading direction
… I suggest changing the title to be more about "violation resolution"
wendy: Agree.
… Doc written mostly by Liz from perspectie as union rep within gov.
<JenStrickland> Perhaps "concern" "conflict"… I'm trying to empathize with someone who may have a concern they'd bring forth.
wendy: Description of process she's experienced. We thought it was a good process in terms of steps.
wendy: Doc say who does what, and gives expectation of what might happen.
… Hope that not every CoC violation escalates to full investigation. MOst often will be conversation and apology. Thoiush sometimes more is needed.
… Curren tprocedures section is light on these details.
David: that helps me understand what this document is intended to be
4. Reporting Violations and Supporting the Code
ralph: Thanks David for raising that point. We probably don't need to spend much time in this meeting wordsmithing the title, but the most appropriate place in CoC to link it is section 4, where "violation" appears.
… As we're tweaking this policy, it might inform us on how we phrase the corresponding spot in the CoC.
… Important how we resolve these is important to our env. What we call it is important: these are progressive steps.
+1 to "progressive steps"
jen: use a case study as an example, to guide us?
… Eg someone did something, and it interferes w my aility to participate. Don't yet have a good way to deal w it.
… Started grad schoold last week, and head of program, they said something about "we may disagree, but no be disagreeable".
… I loved that.
… I said in my first class: "I'll disagree, but here's why", and it was great.
… I agree w David that "dispute" makes an assumption that we're already at that point.
… But I'd like it to be resolved, that the person will at least hear me and not assume things.
… We have friction, a blocker, concerna. Not necessarily at the level of a dispute. Want people to bring things early, to avoid them becoming bigger problems.
… What scenanarios that might help guide this?
<Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to suggest "conflict"
chris: I don't have a problem w dispute, but maybe "conflict" is a better word.
… "Dispute" seems more involved.
… Worried about making it too weak a word, like "concern". Bar should be higher than that.
wendy: I like conflict.
"Steps to Progressive Resolution of Conflict"
David: "conflict" connotes egalitarian things to me, whereas "violation" does not
<JenStrickland> +1 to "Steps to Progressive Resolution of Conflict"
wendy: Want to make it clearer that there is a process -- steps, and who's responsibile for them. Last section (disciplinary actions), it doesn't make it clear enough that it is a progression.
… Q for Ralph: if we have a described termination of participation, but prob need a lawyer to more cleearly firm up the language around it.
… On the weeekend had discussion about kicking people out of nonprofits. CoC violations are not necessarily enough of a reason. Need to be aware of it.
Guidelines to suspend or remove participants from groups
<wendyreid> dbooth: It's always better to try and reform behaviour first
wendy: Yes, but also want to be sure our policies are robust.
<JenStrickland> Does anyone have an issue with Ralph's suggestion?
<wendyreid> w3c/
David: I like the framing "progressive steps"
jen: You gave a wonderful history of the origin of this draft -- came from union.
… Is there a particular legal voice this should take?
… We all disagree at times, need to find non-punative ways to handle them. Here are some ways.
… to help address isssues.
… Also could have a compassionate empathetic intro, then break things out into literal steps.
… Might want to draft content design, then bring to group.
… And it's long.
wendy: Needs trimming.
… Two options for mediation, but now have narrowed to one: professional mediator.
jen: What if this page was an overview, and set TOC for individual items that were additional pages.
… Also better for phone reading.
ralph: I like Jen's comments, and encourage a sentence or two for intro.
… Can figure out presentation -- a document vs a series of pages -- separately.
… But I liked where you were starting: "We all disagree at times. Some steps are more than wha'ts needed . . ."
… Encourage you to draft.
wendy: Second that.
… Also like the idea of sectining the document. Also Ombud program might havea ot of documentation with it.
… Like the idea of making it more readable!
wendy: If you (Jen) draft intro, I can take a crack at restructuring. I'll keep it as one page to start.
dbooth: Sounds good to me.
<JenStrickland> Steps to Progressive Resolution of Conflict Eventually, we all find ourselves in disagreement with others, yet we must not be disagreeable. PWE's steps for progressive resolution of conflict provide an evolving series of approaches to resolution.
dbooth: Helpful to start as one doc, then break it up later if needed.
wendy: Section I'm most uncomfortable with is Disciplinary Action section. Never reviewed by counsel. Should be reviewed by the Team and the Board, e.g., suspensions and warnings, etc.
<JenStrickland> Reviewing the document now, I would really like to at a minimum see a "on this page" at the top that links to the individual sections.
wendy: Especially, when is an appropriate time to tell omeone's employer about their behavior?
… E.g., if there's a pattern of behavior, bring in your AC rep.
… Ralph, could you get opinions on it?
ralph: At some point it will need legal review, but we are charged for that, so we'll need to decide when.
jen: That way you can get paid for quick questions too.
wendy: Other topics?
jen: I put in a draft intro in IRC.
… Also even if it's just one page, if there's a TOC that would help (an outline).
wendy: I'm tempted to move it into respec, for free TOC.
ralph: Procedural comment: for those w recent experience editing, might want to know likely form of end document form.
jen: Thinking of pages for va.gov pages, tried to keep them brief, with outline view that you can expand. Helpful lcongnitively.
<wendyreid> https://
wendy: Need to think about the structure. Need to fix the procedures part.
… Want to update the Ombud stuff.
… And if it's structured like a respec doc then we might not need to split it out.
… Depends on whether we want PWE to publish a doc like that.
ralph: Easier to keep the source in one doc, then if we decide to make it multiple web pages later we can do that.
jen: Wendy is very familiar w the doc. Need an outline. What are the steps? What is the structure of this page? I was going to make one for myself, to see if the steps make sense.
… Doing content design I tend to make the hierarchy first, before the content beneath.
… I'll make an outline of what's on it now.
like this
dbooth: Double brackets keeps text unformated in IRC scribe.perl
<JenStrickland> [[ Outline - Introduction - Get advice from an Ombudsperson - Mediation - when it's effective - - Individual or facilitated mediation - - Professional mediation - Investigations - - Timelines - Disciplinary actions ]]
Open Issues
David: the issues list has grown pretty long
… it seems there are a bunch of old issues that could be closed
wendy: Yes, some old issues. When tzviya is back we'll work on that.
dbooth: Anything that others could help with?
issues currently labeled 'proposed-closing'
wendy: Some have been addressed by not fully closed. Others we won't act on.
wendy: We'll go through them.
… Need to get the new revision out for a vote.
… Then make a plan for the next phase.
ADJOURNED