Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

07 August 2023


Becca_Monteleone, Jennie, julierawe, kirkwood, rashmi
Rachael, Rain

Meeting minutes

<Lisa> no quarum so far

<Lisa> scribe J

<Lisa> next item

Lisa: these are the conversational issue papers

<EA> +present

Tiffany: I am brand new.
… (Tiffany introduced herself to the group)

Lisa: I can give Tiffany an orientation call, and if anyone else wants to join they are welcome to participate

<kimberly_sarabia> sure no problem

<Lisa> conversational interfaces - issue paper . See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B1vCqlU1IF5UmqxhJAy8Khdi-kRQNPalVX8f3lCMr7w/edit

Lisa: this is an issue paper done already.
… We had one on voice interfaces
… Typically they were on the phone, but they could be on the web
… The topic has increased to dialogs - help box
… And other conversational interfaces
… They can be text, or speech.
… We need to address them.
… The other was on wayfinding.
… John K was one of the co-authors
… We did not get around to publishing it - we just put conclusions into Making Content Usable
… Becky is looking at them.
… (sorry, Becca, not Becky)

<Becca_Monteleone> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TDtuC_iMyS_X6nXwyEEAu4Abp2tXHb86/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102321809599068419955&rtpof=true&sd=true

Becca: I will start with the Wayfinding paper
… (displaying the wayfinding document onscreen)
… There was a previous draft. The document has a link to the original.
… I did another literature review.
… I added about 11 or 12 peer reviewed papers from the last 5 years.
… I added the insights from them throughout.

Becca: The paper starts with an introduction. This is about indoor navigation.
… Like a mall, or a hospital.
… (reads from the document).
… There is space for additional use cases. If you have ideas, please share.

<Zakim> Lisa, you wanted to say also ask shawn and dave

Lisa: I like that there is an example. Many people may not understand it just from the technical perspective.
… I think it would help to have with the use case (this is a suggestion) a human aspect.

<kirkwood> I recommend looking at this: https://dsq-sds.org/index.php/dsq/article/view/508/685

Lisa: You could give a person's name, and say a possible issue they face (like having a brain injury).
… We have people on the call with lived experience.
… We also have members with lived experience who are not on the call today.
… They can help make sure we are not missing something from their perspective.

Becca: Thank you. I think that is a great idea.

Lisa: The other question is: do we want to merge this with the wayfinding work done on GPS?

Becca: I would love other people's opinions on this. The distinction is technological
… There may be a case to be made to bring them together.

Kirkwood: I am so happy you are moving forward with this. I will help if needed.
… I can see an argument both ways about whether or not to merge the papers.
… The technology and needs are so different.
… Visual impairments - this is a large group, common for those with traumatic brain injury and stroke.
… And I have done some work with hospitals are neglect, and geo-visual information and how it works with memory

Becca: Thank you. That would be helpful. I saw your comment.
… I would like to raise this as a question.
… This is for John and the group
… Should visual/spacial reasoning be incorporated here (indicating a location on the document)

kirkwood: I think so. This is a big deal for stroke survivors.

Lisa: We could say this as a footnote - this is such an important part of it.
… Working memory can be part of it, but we are talking about it independently.
… It could also be an end note.

kirkwood: it could go into perception.

Lisa: there were no objections

Rashmi: Are we talking about people having certain medications - some experience reduced cognitive abilities.
… Should we be discussing this here?

Lisa: We talk about functional problems, like attention. Those can be temporary or long-term.
… But with the example of temporary, it might be good to bring it in, or in the example of healthcare.
… People have not had a chance to learn the tools.
… So your example, Becca, of indoor navigation, it can be new
… People may not yet have gone to an occupational therapist to address the issues.

<rashmi> A Case Study on Improving Accessibility of Healthcare Care Facility in Low-resource Settings https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3491101.3503557

Becca: I think that is an important idea. Maybe we need more than one example.
… We could introduce the idea of new or temporary cognitive disability.
… The other place we see this a lot is a mall.
… We can show diversity in location.

kirkwood: I think another good one would be food shopping.
… If it impacts navigating in a grocery store, this is important.

Lisa: And maybe with that we add someone who actually has commercial value
… They can't use the store, then they don't buy in the shop, and they leave.
… I added Rashmi's article from the irc into the comments in the document.

Tiffany: I would be willing to help as well.

Lisa: Sometimes the cause of visual, cognitive, and mental health challenges can all come from the same event.
… You would have more people with cognitive impairments than you would in the general population.
… There are a whole bunch of apps coming to market made for people with vision impairments, which is good.
… These may not help people who also have a cognitive disability.
… So people should be aware of when people belong to more than one group.

Becca: Reviewing the next section about challenges.
… (summarizes the section)
… Some are from the original document, some I have added.
… 1st paragraph can provide an opportunity to talk about comorbidity - I made a note to add an example here.

Lisa: These are little more academic.
… I would add 1 thing
… At the end, I would write "include" because this is not an exhaustive list of functional needs.
… I also see the comment about mental health being a big issue.
… Panicking and things like that affecting executive function and focus
… It might be worth adding a sentence that these can be caused by temporary issues and mental health issues.

<Lisa> ?

kirkwood: I think it is very interesting.
… I have never come across anything about the cross-over around mental health.
… It sounds interesting, and I have not done extensive research on it.
… I wonder if much time should be spent on it.

Becca: I made the note because in all of the research I did there is no mention of it.
… I want to make sure it is noted.
… I am hoping the group can add information.

Rashmi: Being in the hospital can cause anxiety. So it is somehow related.
… I will try to find research papers.

Lisa: We have seen that all cognitive functions will be impacted.
… Stress can lower the ability to work with new interfaces

Becca: I wonder how best to incorporate this into this document.

kirkwood: When it is properly set up, it makes like so much easier because you don't have the cognitive load

Becca: perhaps it belongs in the conclusions section,

Jennie: this may be because there is a gap in the literature due to how information is funded.

Becca: that is helpful. I will include that in the comments.

Becca: I am in the memory section of the paper.
… There are things that could be added to each of them.
… (reviews information within the document)
… There are lived experiences pieces that could be added to this section.

Lisa: There are times that the name of the department you need to visit are new to you
… so having the name of where you are going, can be really helpful to those who may not remember it

Becca: Would that be something like reviewing the name, or access the name, multiple times

Lisa: I think it is one or the other, or both
… the labels and names can be difficult to remember. And they can be important.
… Also, you don't want to be flipping between different applications. Having the information all is one place can be helpful.

Becca: I think that is addressed in the solution section, but if not, it should be added there.

Lisa: That might be executive function.

Becca: moving into the executive function section of the document.
… (reads from the document)

Lisa: where does pop-ups - having to switch between - is that attention, or executive function

Becca: Currently that is listed under attention, and listed under the solutions

kirkwood: Interruptions should be called out
… You may also need interruptions to do things.
… But it is the issue of getting back to what you need to do.

Becca: is that sufficient just under attention?

Kirkwood: I can see the argument for having it there.

Tiffany: Depending on if your attention gets broken, or you are in a strange environment
… You can have a loss of energy.
… Something can happen to decrease your energy.

Becca: Thank you. I think that is an important point. I am also not sure where that should go.

Lisa: I think this type of information should be included with the mental health in the introduction.
… John's point that a good experience can really help might go here as well.

kirkwood: I would characterize it as cognitive load.

Jennie: I am wondering if this is about both physical and cognitive energy?

Tiffany: Yes. A decrease in cognition and a physical tool can happen.
… This can reduce physical capabilities of doing other tasks later.

kirkwood: It is the impact it has. Yes, it is all inter-related.

Lisa: Yes, it goes to the concept that mental health, which can impact cognitive function, which can result in spirals.

Becca: That was really helpful. I made a note to track that conversation.
… And will add in the information.

<rashmi> Thanks everyone, I will have to leave now.

<Lisa> thanks rashi

Julie: I am going to send out invites for tomorrow's training session for the Accessibility Guidelines Working Group
… on how to use github.

<Lisa> agenda

Julie: This is about how to participate in the process for WCAG 2
… (scribe note - that should say WCAG 3)

Lisa: We also have calls on Thursday

Rashmi: mental health call is on for Thursday in the earlier time

Lisa: do we also have a WCAG 3 subgroup

Julie: I think so. The big thing for the Clear Language subgroup is tomorrow's training on github

Lisa: and if you cannot attend that training tomorrow, there is one at the same time next week.

Julie: they will record them.
… According to Rachael they may use Clear Language as the example.
… But it will be important for participating in any of the pieces of WCAG 2
… (scribe note: WCAG 3)

Lisa: They are making a big effort to make it usable by us.

<julierawe> Jennie: Transcript correction: The Github training is for developing WCAG 3, not WCAG 2

Thanks Julie - I've been noting them after each one. Sorry for the errors.

Julie: Built into the github process they will make it possible to add comments into a Google doc

Lisa: If anyone on the call struggles with this process, there are others having difficulty
… Your comments will be hugely valuable.

<Lisa> i would like an invite

Julie: If anyone wants an invite, put a comment in IRC or send me an email.

<tburtin> @julie Please add me

<EA> Sadly away to morrow and the following week - please can you send me the recording when it is up

<kirkwood> i sould like an invite

Lisa: Becca - do you want to talk about next steps?

Becca: This was a helpful conversation. Since we didn't get through all of it
… Could we have more time on the agenda, or a separate call, to work through the rest of the document

Lisa: Yes. I think it is more effective. We may be able to add it to the agenda next week.

<kirkwood> i would be avail for working session. sounds good

Lisa: I am wondering if people want to write a couple of sentences about the use cases?

Becca: I could start to draft something but if people want to help

*Lisa - I am going to have to drop - can you finish up the minutes?

<tburtin> I would be open to a working session too.

<Lisa> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list

<Lisa> ea: has the comments been resolved. please reach out me

<Lisa> the diffrence between voice recognition and speach

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).


Maybe present: Becca, Julie, Lisa, Tiffany

All speakers: Becca, Jennie, Julie, Kirkwood, Lisa, Rashmi, Tiffany

Active on IRC: Becca_Monteleone, EA, Jennie, julierawe, kimberly_sarabia, kirkwood, Lisa, rashmi, tburtin