13:27:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
13:27:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/08/07-coga-irc
13:27:33 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:27:34 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:28:08 <Lisa> agenda+ conversational interfaces - issue paper . See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B1vCqlU1IF5UmqxhJAy8Khdi-kRQNPalVX8f3lCMr7w/edit
13:28:15 <Lisa> clear agenda
13:28:17 <Lisa> agenda+ conversational interfaces - issue paper . See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B1vCqlU1IF5UmqxhJAy8Khdi-kRQNPalVX8f3lCMr7w/edit
13:28:45 <Lisa> agenda+ wayfinding https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TDtuC_iMyS_X6nXwyEEAu4Abp2tXHb86/edit
13:31:17 <Lisa> agenda+ subgroups, updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc
13:31:50 <Lisa> agenda+ reminders about the coming week
13:32:20 <Lisa> agenda+ scribe: please sign up!
13:36:43 <Lisa> Regrets+ Rain, Rachael
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14:49:20 <Lisa> agenda?
14:49:35 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:49:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/07-coga-minutes.html Lisa
15:00:21 <Lisa> no quarum so far
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15:02:16 <Jennie> present+
15:02:32 <Becca_Monteleone> present+
15:02:57 <Jennie> scribe: Jennie
15:03:07 <Lisa> scribe J
15:03:35 <Lisa> next item
15:03:50 <Jennie> Lisa: these are the conversational issue papers
15:04:03 <kirkwood> present+
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15:04:13 <EA> +present
15:04:28 <Jennie> Tiffany: I am brand new.
15:05:02 <kimberly_sarabia> kimberly_sarabia has joined #coga
15:05:04 <Jennie> ...(Tiffany introduced herself to the group)
15:05:45 <Jennie> Lisa: I can give Tiffany an orientation call, and if anyone else wants to join they are welcome to participate
15:06:19 <kimberly_sarabia> sure no problem
15:06:27 <Lisa> conversational interfaces - issue paper . See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B1vCqlU1IF5UmqxhJAy8Khdi-kRQNPalVX8f3lCMr7w/edit
15:06:42 <Jennie> Lisa: this is an issue paper done already.
15:06:48 <Jennie> ...We had one on voice interfaces
15:07:00 <Jennie> ...Typically they were on the phone, but they could be on the web
15:07:13 <Jennie> ...The topic has increased to dialogs -  help box
15:07:20 <Jennie> ...And other conversational interfaces
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15:07:25 <Jennie> ...They can be text, or speech.
15:07:31 <Jennie> ...We need to address them.
15:07:36 <Jennie> ...The other was on wayfinding.
15:07:42 <Jennie> ...John K was one of the co-authors
15:08:00 <Jennie> ...We did not get around to publishing it - we just put conclusions into Making Content Usable
15:08:13 <Jennie> ...Becky is looking at them.
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15:08:34 <Jennie> ...(sorry, Becca, not Becky)
15:08:34 <Becca_Monteleone> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TDtuC_iMyS_X6nXwyEEAu4Abp2tXHb86/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102321809599068419955&rtpof=true&sd=true
15:08:36 <rashmi> present+
15:08:45 <Jennie> Becca: I will start with the Wayfinding paper
15:09:45 <Jennie> ...(displaying the wayfinding document onscreen)
15:09:46 <Lisa> q+ to say also ask shawn and dave
15:10:06 <Jennie> ...There was a previous draft. The document has a link to the original.
15:10:14 <Jennie> ...I did another literature review.
15:10:27 <Jennie> ...I added about 11 or 12 peer reviewed papers from the last 5 years.
15:10:33 <Jennie> ...I added the insights from them throughout.
15:10:41 <kirkwood> q
15:10:46 <kirkwood> q+
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15:11:02 <julierawe> present+
15:11:13 <Jennie> Becca: The paper starts with an introduction. This is about indoor navigation.
15:11:20 <Jennie> ...Like a mall, or a hospital.
15:11:38 <Jennie> ...(reads from the document).
15:11:54 <Jennie> ...There is space for additional use cases. If you have ideas, please share.
15:12:01 <Jennie> q?
15:12:04 <rashmi> q+
15:12:08 <Lisa> ack next
15:12:09 <Zakim> Lisa, you wanted to say also ask shawn and dave
15:12:49 <Jennie> Lisa: I like that there is an example. Many people may not understand it just from the technical perspective.
15:13:03 <Jennie> ...I think it would help to have with the use case (this is a suggestion) a human aspect.
15:13:29 <kirkwood> I recommend looking at this: https://dsq-sds.org/index.php/dsq/article/view/508/685
15:13:40 <Jennie> ...You could give a person's name, and say a possible issue they face (like having a brain injury).
15:13:54 <Jennie> ...We have people on the call with lived experience.
15:14:09 <Jennie> ...We also have members with lived experience who are not on the call today.
15:14:24 <Jennie> ...They can help make sure we are not missing something from their perspective.
15:14:34 <Jennie> Becca: Thank you. I think that is a great idea.
15:14:51 <Jennie> Lisa: The other question is: do we want to merge this with the wayfinding work done on GPS?
15:14:55 <Jennie> q?
15:15:23 <Jennie> Becca: I would love other people's opinions on this. The distinction is technological
15:15:31 <Jennie> ...There may be a case to be made to bring them together.
15:15:33 <Lisa> ack next
15:15:53 <Jennie> Kirkwood: I am so happy you are moving forward with this. I will help if needed.
15:16:07 <Jennie> ...I can see an argument both ways about whether or not to merge the papers.
15:16:16 <Jennie> ...The technology and needs are so different.
15:16:35 <Jennie> ...Visual impairments - this is a large group, common for those with traumatic brain injury and stroke.
15:16:37 <tburtin> +q
15:17:14 <Jennie> ...And I have done some work with hospitals are neglect, and geo-visual information and how it works with memory
15:17:21 <Jennie> q?
15:17:31 <Jennie> Becca: Thank you. That would be helpful. I saw your comment.
15:17:40 <Jennie> ...I would like to raise this as a question.
15:17:56 <Jennie> ...This is for John and the group
15:18:17 <Jennie> ...Should visual/spacial reasoning be incorporated here (indicating a location on the document)
15:18:32 <Jennie> kirkwood: I think so. This is a big deal for stroke survivors.
15:19:10 <Jennie> Lisa: We could say this as a footnote - this is such an important part of it.
15:19:25 <Jennie> ...Working memory can be part of it, but we are talking about it independently.
15:19:31 <Jennie> ...It could also be an end note.
15:19:38 <Jennie> kirkwood: it could go into perception.
15:20:01 <Jennie> Lisa: there were no objections
15:20:01 <Lisa> ack next
15:20:52 <Jennie> Rashmi: Are we talking about people having certain medications - some experience reduced cognitive abilities.
15:20:57 <Jennie> ...Should we be discussing this here?
15:21:14 <Jennie> Lisa: We talk about functional problems, like attention. Those can be temporary or long-term.
15:21:32 <Jennie> ...But with the example of temporary, it might be good to bring it in, or in the example of healthcare.
15:21:39 <Jennie> ...People have not had a chance to learn the tools.
15:21:58 <Jennie> ...So your example, Becca, of indoor navigation, it can be new
15:22:11 <Jennie> ...People may not yet have gone to an occupational therapist to address the issues.
15:22:12 <rashmi> A Case Study on Improving Accessibility of Healthcare Care Facility in Low-resource Settings https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3491101.3503557
15:22:32 <Jennie> Becca: I think that is an important idea. Maybe we need more than one example.
15:22:44 <Jennie> ...We could introduce the idea of new or temporary cognitive disability.
15:22:51 <Jennie> ...The other place we see this a lot is a mall.
15:22:57 <Jennie> ...We can show diversity in location.
15:23:18 <Jennie> kirkwood: I think another good one would be food shopping.
15:23:29 <Jennie> ...If it impacts navigating in a grocery store, this is important.
15:23:48 <Jennie> Lisa: And maybe with that we add someone who actually has commercial value
15:23:58 <Jennie> ...They can't use the store, then they don't buy in the shop, and they leave.
15:24:31 <Lisa> ack next
15:24:33 <Jennie> ...I added Rashmi's article from the irc into the comments in the document.
15:24:48 <Jennie> Tiffany: I would be willing to help as well.
15:25:08 <Lisa> q+
15:25:38 <Jennie> Lisa: Sometimes the cause of visual, cognitive, and mental health challenges can all come from the same event.
15:25:54 <Jennie> ...You would have more people with cognitive impairments than you would in the general population.
15:26:16 <Jennie> ...There are a whole bunch of apps coming to market made for people with vision impairments, which is good.
15:26:30 <Jennie> ...These may not help people who also have a cognitive disability.
15:26:46 <Lisa> q?
15:26:48 <Jennie> ...So people should be aware of when people belong to more than one group.
15:26:50 <Lisa> ack next
15:27:19 <Jennie> Becca: Reviewing the next section about challenges.
15:27:32 <Jennie> ...(summarizes the section)
15:27:45 <Jennie> ...Some are from the original document, some I have added.
15:28:09 <Jennie> ...1st paragraph can provide an opportunity to talk about comorbidity - I made a note to add an example here.
15:28:44 <Jennie> Lisa: These are little more academic.
15:28:49 <Jennie> ...I would add 1 thing
15:29:04 <Jennie> ...At the end, I would write "include" because this is not an exhaustive list of functional needs.
15:29:32 <Jennie> ...I also see the comment about mental health being a big issue.
15:29:51 <Jennie> ...Panicking and things like that affecting executive function and focus
15:30:44 <Jennie> ...It might be worth adding a sentence that these can be caused by temporary issues and mental health issues.
15:30:49 <Lisa> ?
15:30:54 <Jennie> kirkwood: I think it is very interesting.
15:31:22 <Jennie> ...I have never come across anything about the cross-over around mental health.
15:31:39 <Jennie> ...It sounds interesting, and I have not done extensive research on it.
15:31:44 <Jennie> ...I wonder if much time should be spent on it.
15:31:58 <Jennie> q+
15:32:16 <Jennie> Becca: I made the note because in all of the research I did there is no mention of it.
15:32:22 <Jennie> ...I want to make sure it is noted.
15:32:36 <Jennie> ...I am hoping the group can add information.
15:32:52 <Jennie> Rashmi: Being in the hospital can cause anxiety. So it is somehow related.
15:33:00 <Jennie> ...I will try to find research papers.
15:33:01 <Jennie> q?
15:33:40 <Jennie> Lisa: We have seen that all cognitive functions will be impacted.
15:34:03 <Jennie> ...Stress can lower the ability to work with new interfaces
15:34:12 <Jennie> Becca: I wonder how best to incorporate this into this document.
15:34:14 <Jennie> q?
15:34:36 <Jennie> kirkwood: When it is properly set up, it makes like so much easier because you don't have the cognitive load
15:34:56 <Jennie> Becca: perhaps it belongs in the conclusions section,
15:35:06 <Lisa> ack next
15:36:06 <Jennie> Jennie: this may be because there is a gap in the literature due to how information is funded.
15:36:16 <Jennie> Becca: that is helpful. I will include that in the comments.
15:36:20 <Lisa> agenda?
15:36:21 <Jennie> q?
15:36:42 <Jennie> Becca: I am in the memory section of the paper.
15:36:53 <Jennie> ...There are things that could be added to each of them.
15:37:05 <Jennie> ...(reviews information within the document)
15:37:25 <Lisa> q+
15:37:30 <Jennie> ...There are lived experiences pieces that could be added to this section.
15:37:55 <Jennie> Lisa: There are times that the name of the department you need to visit are new to you
15:38:12 <Jennie> ...so having the name of where you are going, can be really helpful to those who may not remember it
15:38:28 <Jennie> Becca: Would that be something like reviewing the name, or access the name, multiple times
15:38:35 <Jennie> Lisa: I think it is one or the other, or both
15:39:52 <Jennie> ...the labels and names can be difficult to remember. And they can be important.
15:40:27 <Jennie> ...Also, you don't want to be flipping between different applications. Having the information all is one place can be helpful.
15:40:40 <Jennie> Becca: I think that is addressed in the solution section,  but if not, it should be added there.
15:40:46 <Lisa> q?
15:40:49 <Jennie> Lisa: That might be executive function.
15:40:51 <Lisa> ack n ext
15:41:07 <Lisa> ack next
15:41:10 <Jennie> Becca: moving into the executive function section of the document.
15:41:18 <Jennie> ...(reads from the document)
15:41:46 <Jennie> Lisa: where does pop-ups - having to switch between - is that attention, or executive function
15:42:02 <Jennie> Becca: Currently that is listed under attention, and listed under the solutions
15:42:27 <Jennie> kirkwood: Interruptions should be called out
15:42:28 <Roy> Roy has joined #coga
15:42:41 <Jennie> ...You may also need interruptions to do things.
15:42:51 <Jennie> ...But it is the issue of getting back to what you need to do.
15:43:20 <tburtin> +q
15:43:24 <Jennie> Becca: is that sufficient just under attention?
15:43:27 <Jennie> q?
15:43:49 <Jennie> Kirkwood: I can see the argument for having it there.
15:43:57 <Lisa> ack next
15:44:25 <Jennie> Tiffany: Depending on if your attention gets broken, or you are in a strange environment
15:44:31 <Jennie> ...You can have a loss of energy.
15:44:43 <Jennie> ...Something can happen to decrease your energy.
15:45:00 <Jennie> Becca: Thank you. I think that is an important point. I am also not sure where that should go.
15:45:20 <Jennie> Lisa: I think this type of information should be included with the mental health in the introduction.
15:45:57 <Jennie> ...John's point that a good experience can really help might go here as well.
15:46:06 <Jennie> kirkwood: I would characterize it as cognitive load.
15:46:07 <Jennie> q+
15:46:13 <Lisa> ack next
15:46:58 <Jennie> Jennie: I am wondering if this is about both physical and cognitive energy?
15:47:12 <Jennie> Tiffany: Yes. A decrease in cognition and a physical tool can happen.
15:47:39 <Jennie> ...This can reduce physical capabilities of doing other tasks later.
15:48:00 <Jennie> kirkwood: It is the impact it has. Yes, it is all inter-related.
15:48:28 <Jennie> Lisa: Yes, it goes to the concept that mental health, which can impact cognitive function, which can result in spirals.
15:48:38 <Lisa> ack next
15:48:57 <Jennie> Becca: That was really helpful. I made a note to track that conversation.
15:49:05 <Jennie> ...And will add in the information.
15:49:06 <julierawe> q+
15:49:21 <rashmi> Thanks everyone, I will have to leave now.
15:49:26 <Lisa> ack next
15:49:35 <Lisa> thanks rashi
15:49:46 <Jennie> Julie: I am going to send out invites for tomorrow's training session for the Accessibility Guidelines Working Group
15:49:50 <Jennie> ...on how to use github.
15:49:55 <Lisa> agenda
15:49:59 <Lisa> agenda?
15:50:04 <Jennie> ...This is about how to participate in the process for WCAG 2
15:50:21 <Jennie> ...(scribe note - that should say WCAG 3)
15:50:30 <Jennie> Lisa: We also have calls on Thursday
15:50:41 <Jennie> Rashmi: mental health call is on for Thursday in the earlier time
15:50:56 <Jennie> Lisa: do we also have a WCAG 3 subgroup
15:51:13 <Jennie> Julie: I think so. The big thing for the Clear Language subgroup is tomorrow's training on github
15:51:29 <Jennie> Lisa: and if you cannot attend that training tomorrow, there is one at the same time next week.
15:51:52 <Jennie> Julie: they will record them.
15:52:06 <Jennie> ...According to Rachael they may use Clear Language as the example.
15:52:35 <Jennie> ...But it will be important for participating in any of the pieces of WCAG 2
15:52:43 <Jennie> ...(scribe note: WCAG 3)
15:52:56 <Jennie> Lisa: They are making a big effort to make it usable by us.
15:53:18 <julierawe> Jennie: Transcript correction: The Github training is for developing WCAG 3, not WCAG 2
15:53:46 <Jennie> Thanks Julie - I've been noting them after each one. Sorry for the errors.
15:54:09 <julierawe> q+
15:54:20 <Lisa> ack next
15:54:37 <Jennie> Julie: Built into the github process they will make it possible to add comments into a Google doc
15:55:15 <Jennie> Lisa: If anyone on the call struggles with this process, there are others having difficulty
15:55:47 <Jennie> ...Your comments will be hugely valuable.
15:56:08 <Lisa> ack next
15:56:22 <Lisa> i would like an invite
15:56:35 <Jennie> Julie: If anyone wants an invite, put a comment in IRC or send me an email.
15:56:44 <tburtin> @julie Please add me
15:56:45 <EA> Sadly away to morrow and the following week - please can you send me the recording when it is up
15:56:58 <kirkwood> i sould like an invite
15:57:08 <Jennie> Lisa: Becca - do you want to talk about next steps?
15:57:23 <Jennie> Becca: This was a helpful conversation. Since we didn't get through all of it
15:57:43 <Jennie> ...Could we have more time on the agenda, or a separate call, to work through the rest of the document
15:57:50 <julierawe> q+
15:58:12 <Jennie> Lisa: Yes. I think it is more effective. We may be able to add it to the agenda next week.
15:58:15 <Jennie> q?
15:58:20 <kirkwood> i would be avail for working session. sounds good
15:58:39 <Jennie> Lisa: I am wondering if people want to write a couple of sentences about the use cases?
15:58:58 <Jennie> Becca: I could start to draft something but if people want to help
15:59:13 <Lisa> ack next
15:59:40 <Jennie> *Lisa - I am going to have to drop - can you finish up the minutes?
16:00:08 <tburtin> I would be open to a working session too.
16:00:12 <Lisa> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
16:00:57 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:00:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/07-coga-minutes.html Lisa
16:01:35 <Lisa> ea: has the comments been resolved. please reach out me
16:01:59 <Lisa> the diffrence between voice recognition and speach
16:02:03 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:02:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/07-coga-minutes.html Lisa
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