W3C

– DRAFT –
EPUB FXL Accessibility Taskforce

25 July 2023

Attendees

Present
CharlesL, gpellegrino, sue-neu, wendyreid
Regrets
-
Chair
wendyreid
Scribe
gpellegrino, wendyreid

Meeting minutes

<wendyreid> date: 2023-07-25

wendyreid: last time we had a great conversation, but we didn't end up with an action
… I would like to use the time of our call effectively
… so what's the most effective use of the time?

sue-neu: are we ready to test the solutions listed in case number 60?

wendyreid: some of those yes (like SVG)
… not the fixed-reflowable mixed, nor the visual/textual example
… maybe for visual/textual we can make a mockup
… fallbacks theoretically work

gpellegrino: Not that clear to me what our goal is. We are having great brainstorming sessions
… I would like to define a goal
… then look for solutions to reach that goal
… in two categories
… reading systems side, content creator side
… for the goal, for me, it's not that simple to say "accessible fixed layout"
… looking at WCAG, accessible FXL doesn't mean changing font, size
… WCAG says we can zoom, font size change is not needed
… we are looking for something else
… not just to meet WCAG, but to have something more usable
… have a statement we all agree on
… and then technical solutions we agree on
… the other thing to consider, we need Apple, so many FXL titles were created for books
… maybe we can ask them to join in

wendyreid: yes, we can ask them
… when we started in EPUB WG we had the idea to have guidelines for content creators on how to create accessible FXL publications
… if the goal is only meeting WCAG, then the document is quite ok
… if we want to raise the bar, then we have to suggest to produce something that is more than zooming the content

CharlesL: does the WCAG require only zooming?

wendyreid: yes, for FXL content, but for sure for some readers this is not enough

CharlesL: if we want to come with something that is durable for publishers and for endusers, we have to go above WCAG

wendyreid: we want to produce documentation for content creators and reading systems on how to produce accessible experience in reading FXL content

gpellegrino: Agreed, I would like to add, what do we mean by an accessible experience? It's part of the research on our side

wendyreid: yes, defining it will help contextualizing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NUaO5gvboK23ssvj-j2bcJ_I8AQyN9wr1qcjzuQFXgg/edit?usp=sharing

wendyreid: this is the Google Doc with the current text where we're right now

sue-neu: for defining what is an accessible reading experience we can start from something already available, so we don't reinvent the wheel

wendyreid: not sure if there's something in WCAG

Rachel_Osolen: we have a definition of what FXL is, and we've a definition of what accessibility is

gpellegrino: Start with something like this is a FXL EPUB that meets WCAG AA and then add the requirements

Rachel_Osolen: yes, we have docs for telling what makes an EPUB3 accessible
… we know the requirements for endusers

<CharlesL> http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/fxl/wcag.html

CharlesL: the DAISY KB has something on this

<CharlesL> http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/fxl/

gpellegrino: in WCAG, if a format cannot meet requirements due to constraints of the format, then you are exempt
… this is how other formats get exemptions
… we have reflow requirements, text spacing, orientation, the only missing one is the font face

wendyreid: yes, the only thing we differ from WCAG is the possibility to change font faces and color schemes

sue-neu: do we need to add something read-aloud or screenreader?

gpellegrino: Can we refine further, an accessible FXL EPUB, include the requirements from EPUB accessibility 1.1
… structural navigation, media overlays

wendyreid: for the moment we don't have a document for content creators

gpellegrino: The documents are also focused mainly on HTML content
… we should outline more of the approaches for both sides
… content creators, HTML, SVG, and image approach
… reading systems, how to display those content types

CharlesL: It would be HTML + one of those contents?

gpellegrino: It could be, but there is HTML only content
… with CSS

<CharlesL> regarding AI and a comparison of Non-AI vs. AI generated content for text, images etc.  Really intersting.

<CharlesL> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ft.co%2f5RFibamHv0&c=E,1,DImuO6XJuBoiAh1EU7qcCzqfFl-NNALFgqtKZFXS60jvJNJdF1zNz9rzvzKDobmNXitGhszaHh-hcyXib31nERHim14GR2GL_Pa5BnvN9nHfgyPr9fJEzjQ,&typo=1

CharlesL: I think is important to have other reading systems' developers around the table

gpellegrino: may we say that we need two implementations, even if this will not be a rec?

CharlesL: yes, and I would love to have this in epubtest.org

wendyreid: I can ask Apple, Vital Source, Colibrio, any other?
… Japan is missing

CharlesL: also for special education content office in US

wendyreid: homework

gpellegrino: I can try to read the document and comment on it
… in the autumn LIA may work on SVG part

sue-neu: I can help with the images part

Rachel_Osolen: me too

CharlesL: do we need some expert in SVG?

gpellegrino: I think SVG work will mostly be adding ARIA attributes to SVG

wendyreid: yes, I can start from figma, and then improving it

gpellegrino: we are missing mixed content of fixed and reflowable content in the reading system section

CharlesL: I can review the document and try to make an outline for the reading system doc

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

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No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: gpellegrino

Maybe present: Rachel_Osolen

All speakers: CharlesL, gpellegrino, Rachel_Osolen, sue-neu, wendyreid

Active on IRC: CharlesL, gpellegrino, sue-neu, wendyreid