ixml Group Teleconference

13 June 2023


Bethan, John, Michael, Norm, Steven

Meeting minutes

Previous Actions

ACTION 2023-01-10-b: Michael to take another pass on the EBNF to BNF


Michael: Continues

ACTION 2023-01-10-d: Michael to work out the metadata for identifying

the Unicode version(s) associated with a test.

Done: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2023Jun/0002.html

Michael: Let's discuss later

ACTION 2023-01-10-f: Norm and Michael to do a bit of revision to

improve the draft documentation of the XML

vocabulary (see #137) for further discussion.

Norm: Continues

ACTION 2023-01-10-h: Michael to review RELAX NG rules and report back.

Done: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2023Jun/0003.html

ACTION 2023-02-07-a: Steven to make Pull Request for Unicode test


Steven: There is a test to try and comment on

Steven: I copy the input to output, not strictly needed

Norm: I think it's a good thing

ACTION 2023-02-07-b: Michael to think about adding to the test suite

schema to cover browser (etc) version

Done: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2023Jun/0002.html

ACTION 2023-04-11-a: Norm to investigate production of

rules-conformant version of spec, for publication

as CG Report

Norm: Continues

ACTION 2023-04-11-b: Michael to explore the use of named environments

in the test suite

Done: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2023Jun/0002.html

Michael: We shouldn't do it now, we can discuss shortly

ACTION 2023-04-11-c: John to write up his work on grammar import.

John: Half done
… in Markdown
… I may send the draft to us individually tomorrow

ACTION 2023-05-09-a: Norm to revise the erratum to include stripping

the BOM from UTF-8 input strings (as a should).

Done: pull request 178.

ACTION 2023-05-09-b: Norm to make a pass attempting to describe


Done: pull request 179.

Norm: Reformatted today with changes from Michael
… All to check

ACTION 2023-05-09-c: Steven to produce new sample grammars for issue

#139 for discussion in June.

Steven: Posted today

<norm> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2023Jun/0009.html

Steven: run it on the examples and see what you think of the output.

ACTION 2023-05-09-d: Steven to produce a discussion document for

renaming (issue #13).

Steven: Continues

Status reports

John: I updated based on comments from Steven
… there were spaces missing in the output
… it's implementation dependent whether whitespace is preserved

Steven: Did you track down the problem where out implementations differ?

John: Not yet

ACTION: Steven to upload ambiguous test to test suite

Norm: I tidied some stuff

Steven: Small changes, nothing special

publication plans

Norm: Continues

Steven: I gave tutorials and talks at web conference and MarkupUK. Went well

Review and resolution of bug reports and technical issues

Issues #174 and #175 BOMs

RESOLUTION: accepted

Norm: I will republish the errata

Issue #176 Encoding CR, NEL, LINE SEPARATOR etc.

Bethan: I disagree with the use of "not constrained" in this paragraph.


Bethan: OK, I'm OK with it

John: I have an example where spaces are removed from the serialization. Is that allowed?
… under indentation conditions, whitespace is elided.

Norm: This is about indentation. It's covered in the XML Serialisation spec.

Michael: It's ok to have an option for indented output
… I think that as long as there is an option NOT to indent, it's OK

Steven: Do we normatively reference the serialisation spec?

John: It's only when we serialise that the whitespace rules kick in
… we have an XML tree, what we do then

Norm: Our spec says it is manditatory to serialise

Michael: It troubles me how we use serialistion as term.
… making a tree is parsing not serialisation
… I don't think we should police APIs

Michael: When you pass a tree to a consumer, you are out of the purview of the spec
… we don't specify how DOM trees are handed over

Bethan: The spec does say that processors SHOULD be able to serialise as characters, but, also, ....
… is that 'also' instead or in addition?

Michael: An ixml processor must be able to produce a sequence of characters

Steven: We haven't answered John's question yet

Norm: Serialisation is constrained that it has to provide the right XML

Michael: For "the XML" read "the selected parse tree".

Bethan: That resolves my position

Michael: for the minutes we have two questions: John's question, and Steven's about whether we reference the serialisation spec.
… I would like to avoid referencing the serialisation spec.

Norm: I don't want to impose the constraint that we are building an XDM instance

Michael: It would make sense to say that processors could use options defined in the serialisation spec.
… It would allow John to offer indentation

Norm: I'd be prepared to stop short of requiring those options be able to be turned off

Michael: There may be choices in serialisation that the Serialisation spec allows that we don't want to allow as options
… indentation=off is a requirement for the testsuite

John: I do my test checks not at the text level, but compare XML trees

ACTION: Steven to add spaces test to suite

Norm: how about a nonnormative ref to Serialisation, and a note about not adding new whitespace as a SHOULD

ACTION: Norm to assemble a proposal on Serialisation

[We read Norm's new paragraph, and grunt in agreement]


Norm: We need to speed up. For instance every two weeks.


Michael: Second and fourth weeks?

Norm: No, every 14 days

<Steven> Next meeting: 27th of June; after that maybe 11th July, play it by ear

rrsaget, make minutes

Summary of action items

  1. Steven to upload ambiguous test to test suite
  2. Steven to add spaces test to suite
  3. Norm to assemble a proposal on Serialisation

Summary of resolutions

  1. accepted
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 210 (Wed Jan 11 19:21:32 2023 UTC).


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No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: Steven

Found 'Next meeting:' not followed by a URL: '27th of June; after that maybe 11th July, play it by ear'.

Maybe present: Done

All speakers: Bethan, Done, John, Michael, Norm, Steven

Active on IRC: norm, Steven