Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

22 May 2023


aaronchu, Becca_Monteleone, DavidSwallow, EA, JustineP, Katy, kirkwood, lisa, Rain

Meeting minutes

<lisa> ping us in 25

<lisa> next item

Rain and others have added comments and Lisa said she will deal with them and we can go for the next round of comments

Mental Health close to finishing first set of tasks - may bring some issues to the group

Structure has time on the Agenda and Image subgroup not here

Clear Language - Julie said all was going well.

Internationalisation group - Katy, Aaron and Rashmi with Lisa in the group

Katy was suggesting trying to enlist some members of the Easy Language group

Katy confirmed she is part of a mainly European Easy Language group who could join - have a general language meeting once a month and a conference will be in Portugal

Date for the 3-7th July for Clara conference. Lisa asked Katy if she could manage the recruitment by July. So far there is knowledge about Chinese and Japanese, Hebrew

Also Hindu and need to coordinate as well as get a leader for the group.

Test strategy need to ask Jenny about progress but not on the call.

<lisa> next item

<lisa> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups

<DavidSwallow> Sorry to interrupt....John Kirkwood and I are in a Zoom chatroom, but it seems we're not in the right one...

Lisa asked when do we want sub groups to meet - used to be Thursay - the rota is not really working with the shorter sprints 4-8 weeks

Need to meet more often - so do we get rid of the Thursday subgroup meeting time?

<kirkwood> sorry not sure what zoom we are on?

Julie felt that the Thursday timing was helpful as it works for the different time zones. Can be difficult if there are many group meetings at the same time

<Rain> +1 to helpfulness of the Thursday time being set

Julie keen to have the set time on Thursday

+1 - I also liked the time of the Thursday call

<Rain> easier to have these times blocked out

<Rain> but don't suggest requiring

<Rain> because not everyone can do it

<Rain> works well for structure group

<Rain> I think that it is good as is

<Katy> I like the time and day of the clear language sub group

<Rain> because then we can join the other groups

<Rain> It becomes hard when the groups meet at other times other than what is regularly blocked out to join them at will

Lisa asked everyone to add extra items onto the calendar and the google doc.

Becca for research feedback? But was not aware of the need for getting the issue papers ready with feedback into the document.

<Katy> Here's some info about KLAARA: https://conferenceindex.org/event/klaara-2023-july-leiria-pt

Becca sent out a request two weeks ago and still needs to add the feedback and check what has been sent to her. Will put an update in the chat

<Katy> https://www.facebook.com/klaara2023 https://www.fenacerci.pt/evento/klaara-2023-3a-conferencia-sobre-linguagem-e-comunicacao-acessivel/

Coga Action doc repeated link https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc

Thanking Katy for link to easy language conference at 16.18

Julie will join the international subgroup.

Julie asking about action items page - has put in deadlins for feedback on Clear Language - the due date has now past and wants to make sure this needs to be wrapped up.

Julie felt there is a need to have a process for ending the request - so now adding 'done' to the document.

<lisa> next item

Not possible a Kiki not around but Rain will send a reminder on Thursday and will share items that would have been shared today.

Lisa suggested that it would help to make sure chairs have the time of their subgroup on the Agenda page.

<lisa> next item

Research items may also be added to next week.

<julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JKJ32DK_A82ahsQ_k0RVPc-ZYpX5uuKtuGOLdo2OqyY/edit#

Julie has added link to Clear Language working draft (2023) and shared her screen. Concerns about the small number of outcomes - these have been split into 24 and now need headings to cluster them but keep individual outcomes separate.

The headings have been accepted but Jeanne Spellmen was not sure that these would stay with the final version of WCAG 3 might not keep them all.

This would be because none of the other sections have this look - but we will try to keep them with the high level view and then a more detailed information

<lisa> close item 7

All the descriptions in the clear language document are meant to be high level. Need to await the feedback from the WCAG groups and need to check that we are going in the right direction.

Julie went through all the sections and explained why content for each one was written in the way it was - some discussions around several sections and still need to be completed.

Some discussions around sections that might be covered by other parts of WCAG 3 such as keep backgrounds clear and uncluttered by images etc

Last items may be covered elsewhere as well but leaving items in place to ensure they do not get lost.

Clear Language is the first sub-group to test out the template and needed more than three outcomes - found the guidelines really did not work for the subject

Lisa mentioned the issues around font, text formating etc that was not in Content Usable may be a problem as we may not have made specific guidelines for these items. This was meant to be a re-write rather than introducing new content

<lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#heading=h.1kru9t5f0fpj

Julie agreed that this was not in Content Usable and so wondered if it should be included and Lisa confirmed that what went into Content Usable was very thoroughly checked and agreed on during the writing of patterns.

Lisa said these last items have gone through the consensus process so may need to be careful about including them

<Zakim> Rain, you wanted to discuss semantic markup

Lisa also suggested that the headings could be outcomes in their own right.

Rain felt that some of the formatting items are actually in Content Usable but in a different way so could change these to fit with the original document - and also under the API section as well

<Rain> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#use-clear-unambiguous-formatting-and-punctuation-pattern

Rain also suggested correcting 'sparingly' changing the semantics. Words needs to match Content Usable - use the correct HTML

<Rain> Displaying the content of the number and using HTML semantics to ensure users and assistive technologies are aware of the number’s purpose. In addition, the following recommendations can assist with improving text-to-speech rendering:

Lisa said we must reinforce using correct semantics.

<lisa> Displaying the content of the number and using HTML semantics to ensure users and assistive technologies are aware of the number’s purpose

<Rain> Semantic headings are used to break the information down into a more manageable size and provide structure to the information being presented. This particularly benefits users of Assistive Technology.

Rain suggested that there were also other areas when this is mentioned

<Rain> second quote from https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#provide-alternative-content-for-complex-information-and-tasks-pattern

<Rain> +1 to Aaron re: the strong - italic - etc. formatting, but for headers very important

Aaron asked if he could give some feedback as he missed the time scale. Aaron felt that the layout was important and also the way tags are added and felt it might help to update the guidelines on this area.

<lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#heading=h.1kru9t5f0fpj

Lisa just felt that there was no consensus around this area so we need to go through the correct process and the link above will lead to Suggestions for the next version of Making Content Usable

<julierawe> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#explain-implied-content-pattern

<lisa> close the que

Julie mentioned that emojis appear briefly in Content Usable but now we have a separate item on the subject in Clear Language doc.

<lisa> close the queue

Julie went on to ask if we were going into it too deeply compared to Content Usable and should we keep it in the document.

<lisa> open the queue

Lisa suggested that we may need to look into this further.

<Rain> Just writing in here to suggest we are careful about ruling out the value of emoji. Accurately used emoji can be helpful for some individuals and, to Lisa's point, we need more research

Julie asked Aaron when he could review the document - Aaron said that he could review it before the end of the week.

Lisa said that it is important that WCAG are given time to give directional feedback to the subgroup before going to far down the writing.

Julie added that we need to know what the outer groups really want now so we can reframe it all - not yet gone through the full consensus

This is still a draft document

<lisa> next item

<lisa> do u want to meet next week

<aaronchu> +1 Rain per emoji

<Rain> -1 (will be out)

<aaronchu> -1

<kirkwood> -1

<Katy> -1

<Becca_Monteleone> -1

<julierawe> -1

<lisa> next item

<kirkwood> apologies, as a quick point of order/housekeeiping, I think the link is incorrect on our page, can we/someone double check? think this was David and my confusion joining today): https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga

It looks as if there will be no meeting next week.

<lisa> next item

Lisa warned everyone that the Zoom link number had changed.

<lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#

Lisa asked if everyone liked the table of content? An overview at the beginning but it does not have all the information so added a table of contents

<lisa> reaserch doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#

Lisa asked if anyone did not like the overview? Also need more methodology for the literary reviews...

No replies so Lisa will wrap up the meeting.

Thank you Lisa

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 210 (Wed Jan 11 19:21:32 2023 UTC).


Active on IRC: aaronchu, Becca_Monteleone, DavidSwallow, EA, julierawe, JustineP, Katy, kirkwood, lisa, Lisa, Rain