Meeting minutes
Non-Text Contrast
MJ: Programmatic for terminal emulators.
Jason: Yes for the output and for the interface of the emulator
Matt: Matt said if bitmap images are possible. They are possible. You can cat the images as well as the text but you can only get the image back
… In the case of the graphical stuff that I see in the output it's all done with Unicode characters
Matt: Most used color palette continues to be @@@
Matt: I've never seen a command line app that uses bitmaps in its output
Jason: I wonder whether that technically means in the text part according to guidelines
Janina: I'd say yes and it's the AT's responsibility
Matt: It will have a code point and description
Janina: And what does the AT does?
… Should we be updating ouur guidance at this level of details?
Matt: WCAG probably have odne it already
Jason: Does anyone know how these characters are considered in terms of contrast
Janina: Do Unicode code points ignore the background set by the user?
Matt: The ones we refer to as emoji are actually graphics with their own shading and color in most OSs
Janina: So maybe this applies here
Matt: I will look up what WCAG says about emojis
Text Spacing
Matt: We do offer some control over fonts, font sizes, color palettes etc, not so sure about spacing
… I think this is something for the terminal emulator to provide this feature. They should be expected to provide it, if ont, then that is a WCAG failure
… I said not for the app side because we are just considering a character displayed with cells that are addressable. You cannot put a character that is half a cell
Janina: I think we are delineating between characters of a console and characters in a GUI
Jason: Sounds fine to me
MJ: It's not about the terminal emulator providing the ability
… I don't think terminal emulator content is in a markup language
Jason: It's not, it does not technically fit
… The markup language aspect is essential
MJ: I don't think it applies
Jason: There might be edge cases of an emulator written in HTML and CSS
Matt: There are emulators written in HTML, CSS, and JavaScript
Matt: It seems like a reasonable person would agree with this not being markup, but it would be easy for these apps to support it, I'd like to see them doing it
… If we restrict ourselves to mere WCAG then most of it would not apply, if we are doing this work it's because we want to translate WCAG to other environments
Jason: We would like to see it implemented broadly in terminal emulators
Matt: It's so easy to do
Jason: I don't think we can just ommit the requirement based on pure WCAG language
Matt: And we could also include examples of features that are currently implemented in terminal emulators
Matt: I would support Jason's approach
Content on Hover of Focus
Jason: The question is if we need to have some example of tooltips and such to support the interpretation?
MJ: You can just say it applies and then people may say there are no examples for it
Matt: I can look for some examples. The terminals that I use don't use to have toolbars, so probably they don't have tooltips
… I can check if there are additional shell integrations that have these things
Jason: If we don't have examples maybe this is something that we just need to be aware off
Janina: On a file browser, open a prompt of this directory. Wouldn't that be an example?
Matt; I just added a note.
Pause, Stop, Hide
Jason: I think the terminal emulator handles these
Matt: The app could put a message or redraw the screen at any time. I don't think the terminal emulators are thinking much about flashing
… It is possible though that they could effectively create animation
Jason: Not sure about the "can't control" bit. What happens if you press the pause key?
Matt: Conter-example -- There is a command called "sl" wich is design to teach you how to write "ls" properly. You can't interrupt the animation with CTRL C
… You should be able to control it, but in some cases they are not accepting the signal
Jason: The terminal emulator should take care off
Matt: If the native Linux console does not handle this properly, there are reasons for us to say this is an issue
Jason: We should be doing some research before settling on anything
Matt: I've made a not to look into it
Janina: I'll have a look at a full-sized keyboard to see what all of these are about
Jason: It would be useful to use numeric keyboards as well
Three Flashes or Below Threshold
Matt: I think this is different.
… The terminal emulator could potentially filter out flashing
MJ: Would both be yes?
Jason: We've had some discussion in the past around tools that can block these things at a lower level so that it is no longer an issue for any web content
Janina: And that is an action item in APA, we want to pursue that in some spec before WCAG3, however it should still be in WCAG3 for authoring purposes
MJ: For now we are going to say this one applies
Janina: And the real solution should be client side
Jason: And it's coming
ByPass Blocks
Jason: I don't know any good cases that come to mind
… You'll have to move the cursor or focus around
Janina: There are uses of multiple cursors in terminal apps
Jason: Not very relevant here I think
MJ: Is there blocks of information in output?
Jason: Possible use case -- a menu down the bottom and information at the top. The menu would be a repeated block but you would not be navigating like a web page
Matt: Right now it is a platform limitation
Jason: I don't think the rationale exists in this context
… It is very easy to get past them, often they have a reason to be there, they are not really blocks of information like you have in a web page
Janina: +1
MJ: Not relevant for either the output or the emulator
Matt: I agree
Page Titled
Jason: There is not such a thing. Most similar would be window title. I know terminal emulators will set that so you would have the current directory
… If you think about window titles then it could be applicable to emulators
Matt: The terminal emulator by default would call the tab or window with the executable name that is running
… I think that's up for the terminal emulator. If you are just in the shell it may give you the option to title it with the current directory
… Some apps are long running and may have multiple different modes of operation. Think of pages in a SPA, you still have to update the title to reflect what the user is doing in each moment
… There are proprietary escape codes that could be used for that
Jason: Not sure about that, sometimes headings can count as page titles
Janina: This is WCAG2ICT, full mapping is not necessary
Jason: If you think that the window title is analogous to a page title, then some meaningful title would be needed
Janina: Think of it functionally when you do Alt Tabor similar, you want to have the title when you get to the thing, not when you leave the ting
Jason: Then something within the application should be making appropriate use of it
<maryjom> https://
JAnina: I am missing the word "window"
MJ: I think that's implied
Jason: In that case titles would be analogous to window, adn what the application provides would be analogous to a heading and thus would not fit well. I agree with Matthew that it applies
Jason: The application cannot determine the window title. It would be a "Yes" on the emulator
… I think there is something related to headings that we need to find a place for. Maybe within another SC
Matt: A command line app can tell the terminal emulator how to call the tab
… Whether that fits into the WCAG concept of "page" is what we need to clarify
… We could say that this is areally good thing to do even if we cannot use the concept of "page"
Link Purpose
MJ: Does output have links on it?
Matt: I've found some terminal apps that have "go to this address to leanr more"
… The app can put the text, then the emulator can decide if they want to make it clickable
… I heard that there is a standard way for the app to put a link without the URI
… I need to do some research
MJ: Under investigation
Jason: IF apps can do that then we have a case
Focus Visible
Matt: There are libraries that draw things like radio buttons and you can use the arrow keys or the tab key to move
… That brings some sense of focus. If they do that, then that style is inaccessible for screen reader users
Matt: There is some visual highlighting
Jason: I think it could be, if the focus is far from the underlined as the operating system is concerned
Matt: I'll make a note of this. I am away next week though, not sure I can get to all of my items in one week
Jason: We can work in parallel as we do the research
Jason: We can say "Yes" if the app is creating some alternative focus appart from the operating system
Next Steps
MJ: Matt is not here next week. Do we meet or we skip that week?
Janina: I take aread, I can work more on your PR comments, Mary Jo
… I would be happy if we don't meet this Friday
MJ: We will take a break next week
… Next meeting 2 June