Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

04 20 2023


David-Swallow, EA, Jan_, jeanne, julierawe, kb, kirkwood, Rain
Jan McSorley

Meeting minutes

<lisa> topic subgroups

mental health

<lisa> home page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups/Mental_Health mental health reaserch tracking: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#heading=h.bc4vqyklmnk0 Please add your review at [Form for adding new reserch]: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform spreadsheet with papers reviewed so far:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet[CUT]

<lisa> resech dic : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#

<Jan_> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKNrofGubnpQE6mO-vxmI-1MW5nA2LDj0LxebREPRGA/edit#gid=1686096268

<lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18vm-PuZnhR7OKX019IJr0Rh9Rc7Zj2DO1wNZxiubhkk/edit#

<lisa> coga action: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#

<kirkwood> Thats the main actions page for reference (latest)

<lisa> our google doc with out notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#heading=h.fzh1lkdq14sy

<kirkwood> Jan: there is from called COGA action items, in that actions items doc, you have linkes to mental health research tracking document. So in actions items documents we need to show where find everything

<Jan_> Issue Papers: Issue Paper: Personalization settings to Remove or hide Trigger Warnings Issue Paper: Personalization Settings for Switching off Social Media

<Jan_> Personalization settings to Remove or Hide Trigger Warnings: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19RdKrd2aUJkZcm9FmIOvZ2jfn9JgYpFcqT5mubyQUAQ/edit#heading=h.nidxqwliwmpj

<Jan_> Personalization Settings for Switching off Social Media: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zcSpU2GSSc1cG19p3KiDt4BtOhPBcaQE7GnhjAHba_o/edit#heading=h.yd9i7g86brn4

<kirkwood> need to jump off

<kirkwood> carry on with article reviews where here:

<kirkwood> need to do same format as example (per Lisa)

<lisa> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/

<lisa> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/#web-security-and-privacy-technologies

Plain langage

<julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JKJ32DK_A82ahsQ_k0RVPc-ZYpX5uuKtuGOLdo2OqyY/edit#

<julierawe> Section title: "Literal language is used, and any implied meaning is explained.'

Julie sharing screen - working draft by the end of the sprint to cover all the outcomes in detail but not tests.

Common words will have a more indepth set of work.

User needs first then tests for the various areas for each section.

Julie showed how this was done by reading through her suggestions for three methods in the literal language section.

Julie has updated the link for the personalisation semantics.

Lisa mentioned that getting this to test level may be difficult - so may need a step by step approach - can test by using a translation engine so you can see whether it is translated to the correct meaning - there are tests for when you consider something is not literal - such as subtle changes that affect meaning - may need to go into more detail.

Lisa also added that metaphors and other issues with literal language issues can also be implied and this can be missed such as different types of audio or gesture.

Lisa suggested may need a different type of track such as alternative audio tracks not just for the words written but also music etc.

Lisa also mentioned dry run cognitive test - may need to make one

Julie said what this is a quick set of descriptions and then we build up the tests.

<kirkwood> I would potentially include term “Figurative Language” if including Literal language: which means exactly what it says, whereas figurative language uses similes, metaphors, hyperbole, and personification

Lisa suggested the dry run cognitive test is similar to the way it works when testing computer coding... thinking about the meaning of individual words and how a different option can be offered if a word is too complex

<kb> Thanks for explaining, I wasn't sure what dry run cognitive test was, sorry. Yes, I think hyperbole is also important.

<kb> Rain - could you share the emoji research?

<lisa> +1 emojease are translatable and genraly great

Rain felt the examples offered may mean two things - so do not confuse people and explain the example such as having cold feet - need to ensure this is not the medical side of actually having cold feet. Also suggested using accurate emoji and finally with a dry run - making use of a automated translator would be useful - this is a verification to ensure you are not making a mistake - they identify and correct rather than explain.

Julie said this was a good point. It is about finding a potential probem rather than solving it.

Julie will move this down to the method section later.

<lisa> +1 to ea. it is symbole, icones etc

<kirkwood> yes emoji are (ascii) characters

John says that need to introduce 'figurative language' plus definition.

<kirkwood> both icons/emoji’s are good for memory too (in the plus area, due to emotional saliance)

Lisa icons and emojis are good if you struggle with words but when less frequently used ones or new ones tend to be confused - maybe need to put a star by this aspect of the descriptions as offence can happen when the wrong emoji is used by accident. The way the image looks may need to examined more carefully

Julie felt that interpretations should be perhaps detailed in the way they are used in the method.

<Rain> +1 to focusing on word choice and word-based language in this pass

Jan feels that genstures and emojis are non- literal - felt this was a very complex topic because of the cultural implications and perhaps this is a non- literal area and as with gestures this needs to be flagged.

Julie felt that perhaps we need to think about whether it stays in this section or should be moved

Lisa also asked about tone of voice and its impact - implied content of what you are saying needs to be included.

Julie agreed need to add 'tone of voice' as can also be in written content.

<lisa> symbols and emojes are langage

<kirkwood> +1 to Rain

Rain - concerned that we may be being too broad - need to make a decision whether or not we are covering all content that conveys information including all aspects of language whether written or other aspects for non-written or other ways of communicating what being messaged.

<Rain> +1 to determining the context

<kb> +1 to specifying media. It will help people to find the info too

Jan need to think how to divide this up / does it belong. Make it a different method - answer the question - where would this happen, what is the media used to convey each aspect of the communication.

specify the various type of media used for different contexts

<kirkwood> potential resource: https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Techniques/html/H86#:~:text=Emoticons%20use%20ASCII%20characters%20to,ways%20to%20communicate%20an%20emotion.

Lisa suggested we need to take care with the way we use the word 'language' as gestures, emojis, sign language, AAC symbols etc are all used as a form of language

List suggested highlighting the different types of written language.

Julie looking at the bigger picture - WCAG template really wanted us to use 3 outcomes but we need to really stay with the five outcomes

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say that we removed the 3 Outcome

Jeanne feels if it is all too broad you may need to split the outcomes may be necessary

<kb> +1 to it all falling underneath the banner of '...implied meaning is explained' but perhaps grouped under different media if possible?

Julia asked if we needed to split the non-text language from written.

Rain feels that grouping them out into the sections as one outcome has been very helpful

Jeanne said that experienced test writers suggest that when the outcomes are narrow it is much easier to test. Suggested would it be harder to teach with a broad outcome or a narrow outcome

<kirkwood> good point Jeanne

Rain felt this was very helpful and also need to consider the amount of work to improve the quality of the automated testing - narrow makes it easier to test automatically

Julie felt there need to be several types of tests to ensure they fit the outcome required. Tests would get narrow depending on what is being used.

Jeanne said there is the possibility of more than one tests but it is more a question about whether you have to meet one test or all of the tests etc.

Julie has drafted short blocks of text and text alternative to be wrapped up next week. Need to build out more of the common words outcome and give it more depth.

Julie thanked everyone

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 210 (Wed Jan 11 19:21:32 2023 UTC).


No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: EA

Active on IRC: David-Swallow, EA, Jan_, jeanne, julierawe, kb, kirkwood, lisa, Rain