13:59:39 RRSAgent has joined #coga 13:59:44 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-coga-irc 13:59:45 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:59:46 Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 14:00:40 topic subgroups 14:01:01 ShawnT has joined #coga 14:02:04 chair: Jan McSorley 14:02:15 Topic: mental health 14:02:53 David-Swallow has joined #COGA 14:03:15 home page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups/Mental_Health mental health reaserch tracking: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#heading=h.bc4vqyklmnk0 Please add your review at [Form for adding new reserch]: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform spreadsheet with papers reviewed so far:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet[CUT] 14:03:32 date: 04 20 2023 14:03:57 resech dic : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit# 14:04:18 present+ 14:04:49 Agenda+ Review the Analysis Page to determine what still needs to be completed and map out a plan for reviewing the remaining articles. There are about 20 more articles that need to be reviewed and processed. 14:05:22 clear agenda 14:05:28 agenda+ Review the Analysis Page to determine what still needs to be completed and map out a plan for reviewing the remaining articles. There are about 20 more articles that need to be reviewed and processed. 14:06:11 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKNrofGubnpQE6mO-vxmI-1MW5nA2LDj0LxebREPRGA/edit#gid=1686096268 14:08:34 https://docs.google.com/document/d/18vm-PuZnhR7OKX019IJr0Rh9Rc7Zj2DO1wNZxiubhkk/edit# 14:21:51 coga action: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit# 14:22:57 Thats the main actions page for reference (latest) 14:24:10 our google doc with out notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#heading=h.fzh1lkdq14sy 14:25:42 Jan: there is from called COGA action items, in that actions items doc, you have linkes to mental health research tracking document. So in actions items documents we need to show where find everything 14:42:11 Issue Papers: Issue Paper: Personalization settings to Remove or hide Trigger Warnings Issue Paper: Personalization Settings for Switching off Social Media 14:43:04 Personalization settings to Remove or Hide Trigger Warnings: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19RdKrd2aUJkZcm9FmIOvZ2jfn9JgYpFcqT5mubyQUAQ/edit#heading=h.nidxqwliwmpj 14:44:00 Personalization Settings for Switching off Social Media: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zcSpU2GSSc1cG19p3KiDt4BtOhPBcaQE7GnhjAHba_o/edit#heading=h.yd9i7g86brn4 14:51:21 need to jump off 14:52:59 carry on with article reviews where here: 14:59:49 julierawe has joined #coga 14:59:49 need to do same format as example (per Lisa) 15:00:31 kb has joined #coga 15:00:34 https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/ 15:01:01 https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/#web-security-and-privacy-technologies 15:01:02 present+ 15:01:11 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:01:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-coga-minutes.html Jan_ 15:01:33 Topic: Plain langage 15:01:34 EA has joined #coga 15:01:37 jeanne has joined #coga 15:01:44 Present+ 15:01:46 present+ 15:01:51 present+ 15:01:55 Rain has joined #coga 15:02:17 present+ 15:02:28 clear agenda 15:02:47 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JKJ32DK_A82ahsQ_k0RVPc-ZYpX5uuKtuGOLdo2OqyY/edit# 15:02:49 present+ 15:02:56 present+ 15:02:59 present+ 15:03:48 Section title: "Literal language is used, and any implied meaning is explained.' 15:05:13 Julie sharing screen - working draft by the end of the sprint to cover all the outcomes in detail but not tests. 15:05:38 Common words will have a more indepth set of work. 15:06:37 User needs first then tests for the various areas for each section. 15:07:15 Julie showed how this was done by reading through her suggestions for three methods in the literal language section. 15:07:40 Julie has updated the link for the personalisation semantics. 15:09:44 q+ 15:10:41 Lisa mentioned that getting this to test level may be difficult - so may need a step by step approach - can test by using a translation engine so you can see whether it is translated to the correct meaning - there are tests for when you consider something is not literal - such as subtle changes that affect meaning - may need to go into more detail. 15:11:49 Lisa also added that metaphors and other issues with literal language issues can also be implied and this can be missed such as different types of audio or gesture. 15:12:53 Lisa suggested may need a different type of track such as alternative audio tracks not just for the words written but also music etc. 15:13:21 Lisa also mentioned dry run cognitive test - may need to make one 15:13:56 Julie said what this is a quick set of descriptions and then we build up the tests. 15:13:59 q+ 15:14:54 I would potentially include term “Figurative Language” if including Literal language: which means exactly what it says, whereas figurative language uses similes, metaphors, hyperbole, and personification 15:15:58 Lisa suggested the dry run cognitive test is similar to the way it works when testing computer coding... thinking about the meaning of individual words and how a different option can be offered if a word is too complex 15:16:26 q+ 15:16:30 Thanks for explaining, I wasn't sure what dry run cognitive test was, sorry. Yes, I think hyperbole is also important. 15:19:11 Rain - could you share the emoji research? 15:19:24 +1 emojease are translatable and genraly great 15:20:02 Rain felt the examples offered may mean two things - so do not confuse people and explain the example such as having cold feet - need to ensure this is not the medical side of actually having cold feet. Also suggested using accurate emoji and finally with a dry run - making use of a automated translator would be useful - this is a verification to ensure you are not making a mistake - they identify and correct rather than explain. 15:20:29 Julie said this was a good point. It is about finding a potential probem rather than solving it. 15:20:56 Julie will move this down to the method section later. 15:21:52 q+ 15:21:58 +1 to ea. it is symbole, icones etc 15:22:13 ack Rain 15:22:18 ack EA 15:24:04 q+ 15:25:00 ack Rain 15:25:26 yes emoji are (ascii) characters 15:28:58 Q+ 15:30:21 ack next 15:31:28 John says that need to introduce 'figurative language' plus definition. 15:32:58 both icons/emoji’s are good for memory too (in the plus area, due to emotional saliance) 15:35:30 q+ 15:35:35 Lisa icons and emojis are good if you struggle with words but when less frequently used ones or new ones tend to be confused - maybe need to put a star by this aspect of the descriptions as offence can happen when the wrong emoji is used by accident. The way the image looks may need to examined more carefully 15:36:18 Julie felt that interpretations should be perhaps detailed in the way they are used in the method. 15:37:38 +1 to focusing on word choice and word-based language in this pass 15:37:53 Jan feels that genstures and emojis are non- literal - felt this was a very complex topic because of the cultural implications and perhaps this is a non- literal area and as with gestures this needs to be flagged. 15:38:15 q+ 15:38:41 Julie felt that perhaps we need to think about whether it stays in this section or should be moved 15:39:34 Lisa also asked about tone of voice and its impact - implied content of what you are saying needs to be included. 15:40:24 Julie agreed need to add 'tone of voice' as can also be in written content. 15:40:54 symbols and emojes are langage 15:41:39 ack Rachael 15:41:43 ack Rain 15:41:55 +1 to Rain 15:41:59 Rain - concerned that we may be being too broad - need to make a decision whether or not we are covering all content that conveys information including all aspects of language whether written or other aspects for non-written or other ways of communicating what being messaged. 15:42:31 +1 to determining the context 15:43:20 q+ 15:43:23 +1 to specifying media. It will help people to find the info too 15:43:24 Jan need to think how to divide this up / does it belong. Make it a different method - answer the question - where would this happen, what is the media used to convey each aspect of the communication. 15:43:50 specify the various type of media used for different contexts 15:44:36 potential resource: https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Techniques/html/H86#:~:text=Emoticons%20use%20ASCII%20characters%20to,ways%20to%20communicate%20an%20emotion. 15:44:53 Lisa suggested we need to take care with the way we use the word 'language' as gestures, emojis, sign language, AAC symbols etc are all used as a form of language 15:45:21 List suggested highlighting the different types of written language. 15:46:14 Julie looking at the bigger picture - WCAG template really wanted us to use 3 outcomes but we need to really stay with the five outcomes 15:46:18 jeanne has joined #coga 15:46:32 q+ to say that we removed the 3 Outcome 15:47:26 ack jeanne 15:47:26 jeanne, you wanted to say that we removed the 3 Outcome 15:47:26 Jeanne feels if it is all too broad you may need to split the outcomes may be necessary 15:47:50 q+ 15:48:13 +1 to it all falling underneath the banner of '...implied meaning is explained' but perhaps grouped under different media if possible? 15:48:26 q- 15:48:27 Julia asked if we needed to split the non-text language from written. 15:48:40 q+ 15:49:00 ack Rain 15:49:02 Rain feels that grouping them out into the sections as one outcome has been very helpful 15:49:05 ack jeanne 15:49:48 q+ 15:50:23 Jeanne said that experienced test writers suggest that when the outcomes are narrow it is much easier to test. Suggested would it be harder to teach with a broad outcome or a narrow outcome 15:50:43 good point Jeanne 15:51:15 Rain felt this was very helpful and also need to consider the amount of work to improve the quality of the automated testing - narrow makes it easier to test automatically 15:51:34 ack Rain 15:51:55 Julie felt there need to be several types of tests to ensure they fit the outcome required. Tests would get narrow depending on what is being used. 15:52:47 Jeanne said there is the possibility of more than one tests but it is more a question about whether you have to meet one test or all of the tests etc. 15:53:53 Julie has drafted short blocks of text and text alternative to be wrapped up next week. Need to build out more of the common words outcome and give it more depth. 15:54:50 RRSAgent, publish minutes 15:54:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-coga-minutes.html lisa 15:54:58 Julie thanked everyone 15:55:05 RRSAgent, publish minutes 15:55:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-coga-minutes.html lisa 15:55:43 thank you jlie and all 18:03:29 Zakim has left #coga