Meeting minutes
<tzviya> Date: 2023-03-10
<tzviya> https://
tzviya: Ivan shared a proposed charter for a maintenance working group
… any comments?
GeorgeK: Looks really good
tzviya: One thing
… I noticed is we'd be liasing with would be the BD comics and manga group
… not sure if it's functional
ivan: No idea
tzviya: It doesn't really matter, we might want to reach out
ivan: It's one of the questionable CGs, the other is the Sync Media CG
AvneeshSingh: Discussion has slowed down and I've had to divert Marisa's attention
… the group is still there and it'll be worked on when it's the right time
ivan: We'll keep it then, for the other one, I'm not sure
<AvneeshSingh> a11y discov vocab
AvneeshSingh: I've copied another CG, the one for Accessibility Discoverability Vocabulary
<AvneeshSingh> coordination group: https://
ivan: Would like to keep Dave in as chair, but I know we had to fight last time
tzviya: I don't think it'll be the same fight
ivan: Would prefer to keep him in, we'll answer questions if they happen
tzviya: I still have my notes from last time
ivan: We do need his approval
tzviya: We'll convince him
ivan: If we're ok with the charter, we can start the process
… we'll have to figure out how to communicate it
tzviya: I don't think we'll have opposition to a maintenance charter
<Bill_Kasdorf> In section 5.1 you have the ARIA WG in twice
ivan: I'll do it all next week then
AvneeshSingh: Ivan, you mentioned we won't be adding new metadata vocabs
… does a maintenance group not allow us to do so, is there complexity in the process?
ivan: I don't think that there is a problem, what metadata are you referring to?
AvneeshSingh: There's a few new fields for a11y conformance
… would it be blocked?
ivan: It's not a separate, new vocabulary?
AvneeshSingh: It's new fields
ivan: These are new terms, not a new vocabulary
AvneeshSingh: One more, role of the director?
ivan: Not up to me
tzviya: Director-free has not been approved, once it is approved, the language of the charters will change
ivan: The timing won't work out, the language stays in
… I marked it so it can be finalized at some point
Bill_Kasdorf: My question, with regards to identifiers, ISCC is looking to be close to ISO confirmation
ivan: It's out of scope for us to define, but we're fine to use
Bill_Kasdorf: That makes sense
tzviya: Looks like we're good to move forward to the groups, then team
… tried to scrutinize this from an opposition perspective, I think we are ok
ivan: We'll see
tzviya: AB is working on how to clean things up before objections happen
… next item is a legal update
GeorgeK: [Update]
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to clarify
tzviya: Next item, what's going on?
GeorgeK: CSUN is next week
… presentation on EPUB 3.3
… 3 presentations total on EPUB, publishing, a11y metadata
… full slate
tzviya: Exciting!
liisamk_: Daihei and Cristina and I are looking at doing another conference day session on AI since it's a hot topic at the moment
… Daihei is looking for people to possibly present
… also want to look at the document from the salon to find topics to discuss
… if there's anything we want to discuss let me know
tzviya: AI and what?
liisamk_: It's wide open, people are talking about it right now for publishing
… it's interesting, what's the good, whats the bad, what are people trying to use it for
… our community would be interested
ivan: Can I give two examples?
… just saw this morning that DuckDuckGo introduced a new feature for it to provide human summaries of info you're searching for
… could summarize all sorts of content
… the other is less fun, but it's an excellent tool for plagiarizing books
ivan: Would be difficult to trace back
… a non-trivial issue
… discussed in scholarly publishing circles
… should ChatGPT be used as a co-author
liisamk_: Daihei mentioned some Japanese publishers considering AI could take over lower level authors so publishers could focus on A-list authors
… it's uncomfortable, but it shows there's a lot of ideas out there
wendyreid: It is an interesting topic. Clark's World is a scifi/fan publication with a wide open policy, but they had to close it. It was flooded with AI generated content.
… There's discussion about whether it was a targeted attack
… It's worth discussing the challenged. Aligns with the anti-counterfeiting work. Being able to verify the source could be even more important than it was before.
tzviya: I think it's important to talk about the challenges without fear-mongering
… also talk about the advantages
… there's a lot of nuance to the discussion, we should have a conversation about it as a new art form, the advantages and disadvantages
… time savings, we have to approach this carefully
ivan: I regard it as positive, but we do have to be careful
tzviya: AIs are really good at summarizing long-winded documents
… and really long emails
wolfgang: We'll have two presentations this month from Zheng and Gauthier, things like 3D and non-textual content
… implemented solutions and it's part of the discussion that has been happening in the education TF
… there is a question of best practices
… Sue Neuhaus's interviews with librarians, scholarly publications like theses with games
… what format is best
… counterfeit TF is also making good progress
… and a11y TF is in good shape
… what we'd like to have is more input
… more use cases, more people bringing ideas
… just bring your pain points
GeorgeK: Going back to the AI, one of the big areas in cognitive accessibility is simplified language
… it's a difficult language, simplifying a web page, it could have a huge benefit
… taking a chapter written at a 12th grade level and recasting it at a lower reading level would be fascinating
… one of the potentialsi
tzviya: I remembered my 2nd point, the legal ramifications are complex, who owns copyright
… how does rights management work
… if you publish a book and the bot on DuckDuckGo summarizes it
Wendy: All quiet for EPUB as we wait for it to move forward. We haven't received any comments. I have to follow up with the TAG, who wants us to summarize more
… We are allowed to go to PR on Apr 11
… I will schedule something for FXL A11y soon
… Both FXL A11y and Virtual Locators are kind of stuck, and we need volunteers for writing and/or implementing
… We are running out of time. We could take these TFs to Maintenance WG or shift to CG
ivan: I think moving it to the CG is the appropriate thing to do
… for the information, next tuesday a new note will be published, the mapping of epub:type to ARIA
… next tuesday
wolfgang: Two questions, the FXL A11y, would it be part of the A11y TF or on its own
… it does have a specific focus, or would it merge into the A11y TF
… Virtual Locators is a unique topic that could be it's own TF
… in both cases, I'm happy to assist
Bill_Kasdorf: My concern would be it's two groups of people right now doing the FXL work and the A11y CG work, intersecting but different groups
tzviya: Is it possible to finish this work before EPUB WG ends?
wendyreid: It would be great to have something to work on in the maintenance WG
tzviya: I have a use case for publication manifest and education
GeorgeK: With the new voices that are just so good, the natural voices from Microsoft, Google, Apple, if we're looking at how an EPUB can be converted to audiobooks or media overlays
ivan: These things are better suited for a CG, doing it in the WG would be challenging for membership
… this type of work may end up defining features that need to be retrofitted into the standard
… the right path for that is to incubate in the CG, take it to the WG or create a new one
wolfgang: We'll need people who are more active, we have some already, but we need even more
… the chairs rely on the input of members
… people to take responsibility
… as leads or members
… we have good examples already
… but also some challenges
… ideally attract more members
ivan: I think we'll have to be proactive with managing groups
tzviya: Great discussion
… the majority of our work is shifting to the CG, we do need to find something for the maintenance WG to work on
… I'll be away in April
… need someone to handle the call for april
wendyreid: [volunteers]
liisamk_: OverDrive is the first retailer to see who has implemented the new epubcheck
tzviya: Vitalsource has as well