W3C

– DRAFT –
RDF-star WG teleconference

22 December 2022

Attendees

Present
AndyS, Dominik_T, Enrico, gkellogg, ora, Souri, TallTed
Regrets
-
Chair
ora
Scribe
AndyS, gkellogg

Meeting minutes

<Enrico> p+

<ora> Folks, please do "present+" if you are present

ora: Naming proposal

Naming Proposal

<TallTed> halfway there -- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2022Dec/

<gkellogg> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2022Dec/0017.html

ora: Pierre-Antoine proposal (action item)

<gkellogg> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2022Dec/0000.html

gkellogg: Should we be called "RDF WG" given the wider scope of work?
… consolidate rdf-star, rdf-star-wg mailing lists

tallted: rename rdf-star as rdf-star-cg
… merging does not make sense as different communities

gkellogg: Can we have W3C systeam fwd emails automatically?

ora: distinction escapes most people.

tallted: task force of RDF-star still exists.

ora: Mailing list discussions should go to the public-rdf-star-wg

ora: spec names ...

gkellogg: Precedence is "rdf12-*"
… with "sparql12-*" as "rdf-sparql-*" isn't so short.
… version 12 issues are a long way out.
… previous names - current specs reference previous versions.

andys: what didn't fix was the original 1.0 specs; I suggest we make those consistent.
… That was for the old sparql 1.0 spec.

SPARQL 1.0 - rdf-sparql-query

andys: All older specs should forward to the proper location.

<TallTed> +1 make all the versionless names redirect to the latest versioned doc

<TallTed> (instead of making the user manually click through)

gkellogg: json-ld experience - systeam ensured jsonld* goes to json-ld 1.1 specs.
… normal W3C systeam work process

https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/

sparql-query should eventually be the same as sparql12-query. sparql10-query should be the same as the former rdf-sparql-query.

ora: clarification of all detail needed.

gkellogg: ask team contact to check with the W3C system team.

ACTION: staff contact to refine the naming proposal per WG's discussion

<TallTed> I think https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf12-sparql12-query/ will be the appropriate new target, which becomes the redirect from https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/ (which should be formally moved to https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf10-sparql10-query/)

Enrico's thoughts on modal logic

<Souri> I agree with Ted.

<ora> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2022Dec/0055.html

Enrico: (from email) the fact < :messi :scores :last-WC22-goal > is (1) true in the current world/graph, and (2) it corresponds to the existence of a resource over which we can predicate additional facts

ora: need to discuss this work
… are you suggesting current RDF reification should be revisited?

Enrico: current reification is not defined.

ora: modal logic mentioned in RDF originally but little interest at the time.

<TallTed> need to move on the queue

gkellogg: transparent/opacity In RDF-* not RDF-star, triple is asserted.
… this is something the TF considered. The <<>> is a syntax the triple without asserting it implicitly.
… <<>> is not a context - that is layered via modeling or via named graphs to keep apart
… with our input <<...>> would be need to be asserted as well if intended.

tallted: RDF-* only considered one case - less used by people in the world.
… the <<>> are like "words"
… we need to work with data that exists today
… not require everyone to redo their RDF.
… can say "the sun is black" in a separate named graph to keep things apart

souri: agree with TallTed
… quoted triple useful
… need to capture multiple occurences
… foreign key needs a "name for the triple"

A graph label is a name.

souri: multiple instances of the same triple

<TallTed> Burton+Taylor marriages are a useful foil for the modeling discussion. You *don't know* that your model is broken until their second marriage -- and if you "properly model" for the second (and future), you must also *remodel* all your existing marriage data, for all previous marriages of all previous spouses

<TallTed> No-one will do this. They will find that RDF is indeed too complicated for their use, and they will move on. That would be bad for everyone.

ora: Happy Holidays

<Souri> I agree with Ted.

ora: Please continue on the mailing list

Summary of action items

  1. staff contact to refine the naming proposal per WG's discussion
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 197 (Tue Nov 8 15:42:48 2022 UTC).

Diagnostics

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Succeeded: s/1.,1/1.1/

All speakers: andys, Enrico, gkellogg, ora, souri, tallted

Active on IRC: AndyS, Dominik_T, Enrico, gkellogg, ora, Souri, TallTed