W3C

- DRAFT -

Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference

02 Dec 2022

Attendees

Present
Daniel, Laura, shawn, Kevin, Shadi, Jade, Michele, Brent
Regrets
Chair
Brent
Scribe
Laura

Contents


<scribe> scribe: Laura

<Zakim> daniel-montalvo, you wanted to ask about overall panning issues and mic noises

Screen Reader Video

<kevin> https://app.frame.io/reviews/c87d88e0-58cf-4192-9ba8-57bfee7a96bf/e15e621a-d92a-4a94-9a11-3f85d803cbac

Kevin: background - This is the video for Hannah

script called for actor who uses a screen reader. The actor is blind but does not use a screen reader

as a result - when she is acting out it doesn't look like she's using a screen reader. not sure what we can do with this.

Shadi: maybe we can send old perspectives video to see how a person who uses a screen reader interacts with their phone.

Shawn: not sure that video is salvageable. We can use Hannah as a low vision user.

Shadi: Are there any alternatives?

Summary: probably not salvagable. Clearly not using a screen reader. We'll have a discussion on what options we can take.

Person with spasms using a keyboard

<kevin> https://app.frame.io/reviews/c87d88e0-58cf-4192-9ba8-57bfee7a96bf/591de27d-0209-403e-8bb7-8953a4100f7b

Kevin: script called for someone using an ergonomic keyboard - actor was using a keyboard

Shadi: it didn't look right. A person would probably be using a switch device other than a keyboard

Kevin: there were only a couple of shots of him using a keyboard.
... other lad also couldn't use a keyboard.

Brent: is there a way to flip over to a prop ... using a small bit of the video instead of using a longer clip.

because it never cut away from the actor I was overly focused on the actor.

Shawn: +1 to Brent's comments

Kevin: show far less of actor using the keyboard

Kartoffel Films: do we use digital props instead?

Kevin: we need to see how that works

Summary: use the parts of him hitting tab and return keys - show more of. Cut out the parts where he's not using the keyboard

Tactile Signing

Kevin: video for Marta

<kevin> https://app.frame.io/reviews/c87d88e0-58cf-4192-9ba8-57bfee7a96bf/a021a00f-d2d3-443e-bbf0-efaf9ee1c0c4

He put her hands to the signs - called co-active or hands on signing

Shadi: signing on the back or palms of the hands, etc.

<shawn> +1 that even if it's true, it's not common

<shawn> +1 that the thumbs up rubbed me wrong

suggestion cut out small section

<shawn> +1 to cut out that peice

Brent: I agree

as the scene went on ... he put his hand on her shoulder ... cut the rest because it was an uncommon type of tactile signing

Kevin: if we cut bits then we need to edit/redo voiceover.

<kevin> +1 to tangential

<slewth> +1 to tangential

Shawn: it is also tangential to how people use digital technology ... maybe we cut the whole scene

<krisanne> +1 to tangential

Summary: cut the whole scene where we talk about tactile signing

Kartoffel Films: we need exact shots because of tight turnaround

BSL speed

Shawn: anyone else notice the speed? Never seen anyone sign that slow in my life

Jade: go from slow to very fast speed

Shawn: the english is slow as well.

Kevin: is this particular to the the Marta?

Shawn: it was the main guy

Kevin: how much of an issue is this for everyone?

Kartoffel: we do have an option where he is speaking and signing simultaneously

same actor throughout the video

Shadi: use the other version

Summary: try to use the other version and see what we get

Kevin: Marta video she was signing and the voiceover was slowed to match the signing speed

Brent: that one wasn't quite AS noticable

Shawn: take a look and see if there are other clips that are faster

sign language is faster in real life

Summary: Kartoffel to see if they have a faster version of Marta

Stylistic choices

full screen props vs picture in picture

Shadi: wondering picture in picture if that is a style people prefer?

Is it even a discussion? I prefer switching and engaging ... captions make them big to see what captions are

rather than focusing on the person

switch back when we talk about the person

emphasizing on the technology

front view most of the shots - if we suddenly see the screen - changing perspectives

Kartoffel: the style was to have the person and props to the side. Going to digital props a lot then puts a lot of pressure on the props

Kevin: challenge switching to full screen is an issue for mobile

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to note style for user stories versus others and to say with props, what can we do now and what what might we to note for possible future rejig ?

Shawn: ok for user stories for other we need more emphasis on digital props

what can we do now? what can we do for the future?

more robust digital propping/editing

<Jade> +1 to full screen

Kevin: preference picture in picture or full screen approach?

Sarah: agree with Shadi - cutting full screen between actor and the technology

definitely for non story videos not sure on user stories

Brent: I agree

went through user story videos first

went to non-story videos - knew you'd have more props - so focused on actors - I wasn't catching the point. I started to get a negative feel - actor was struggling

wasn't focused on the the tools they use

good in a way - I couldn't hear the message over watching these people

Shawn: agrees with Brent's perspective

Shadi: more variance helps - story videos too much people even though she was great was too much

I appreciate that it puts pressure on digital props

Kevin: Sophie video person using mobile

<shawn> +1 to Sophie laughing too much. really great at the beginning, and when talking about jokes and pictures. however, later talking about buying tickets and she's still laughing and laughing

Kevin: timing will not allow for massive shift

focus on non story videos

Shawn: change to full screen digital props was jarring for me... what are options?

Kartoffel: is there a reason there's an either or?

Kevin: no

look to see where we can increase. The non story videos are more problematic.

Kartoffel: Can you flag which ones should be full screen?

Kevin: we can't redo digital props

Summary: broadly look at use of full screen props where appropriate to reduce the amount of idle time of people doing nothing

Sophie is an example

<shawn> shadi: it's not either-or -- more options to illustrate the point

Non story video opening panels

Kevin: there's a collage of people starting the video - is this distracting or useful?

anyone else have a thought about this approach?

Brent: on this one for me - because there were 4 - that allowed me to focus on what was being said - i didn't focus on the collage but what was being said

It worked for me

Kris Anne: similar experience to Brent - it was more about representation of multiple people

<Jade> +1 all fine for me, no strong feelings about that

Summary: we're not change the collage - leave it as is.

<slewth> +1 all fine, no strong feelings

<Brent> Borders issue: https://github.com/w3c/wai-people-use-web-videos/issues/323

Non story video narrative

Kevin: is the narrative strong enough to hold watchers attention

audio panning

Daniel: panning - sound can come from both left and right or center

some inconsistencies - either the mic or the person is moving

makes it difficult to listen to

do we want panning or not?

stereo spectrum needs consistency - if it's moving while the person is speaking it's very distracting

Kevin: has there been any thoughts in the panning

Kartoffel: no worries we'll adjust it

It's not the final - we need to clean the audio up

suggest no panning

Kevin: does anyone feel that panning is required?

Brent: I agree. Get rid of it

Summary: remove panning

Disabled People or People with Disabilities

Kevin: recorded both versions so we can use either

other countries do different things - we can use them interchangeably

<kevin> https://github.com/w3c/wai-people-use-web-videos/issues/328

do we want to take a position?

Kartoffel: we only did People with Disabilities

Jade: how is this handled other places on the WAI site

Shawn: years ago we were very strongly using people with disabilities - then during redesign we changed so we were more flexible

It's in the style guide

Shawn: see the issue - it's vehement - Sharron was strongly suggesting using "disabled people"

1 caveat - people have strongly held views on both sides

Shadi: I am really concerned about this discussion...

Kevin: we have options in this space - both are acceptable. Using both is something that we can do.

opener - how people with disabilities - closing - disabled people - do we need consistency?

Shawn: I think we can still use both in the text, along with an explanation.

Summary: We use people with disabilities throughout.

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/business-case/

"digital technolgy" or "web"

Kris Anne: I like both in different situations

<Jade> +1 to Kris Anne!

Shadi: I agree with Kris Anne

Shawn: how do people feel about changing it everywhere, video, resource, etc.

Summary: shift to using digital technology instead of web

Kevin: I've gone through my list. Does anyone have anything else?

If so, raise as a github issue but we need it by midnight tonight

Kris Anne: Ian autism video - do you have video of him speaking his name?

Kartoffel: we do. We can change it

Kevin: there's nothing that's open for discussion - their comments were attached to the video.

<Zakim> shadi, you wanted to mention a good point Michelle raised on closed laptop

<Zakim> daniel-montalvo, you wanted to ask about one narration passage

Daniel: Perception video - wording issue

Adjusting these properties are individual from one person to the other

Kartoffel: I can't find it in perception video. It's in presentation video

If it's recorded we can't change it.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say Bk6033_W3C_Visual_V1 "...light gray text on a white background are easier to use for people who are color blind." 01:53

<kevin> The full text from the script “Websites and apps that avoid text with low contrast, such as light gray text on a white background, are easier to use for people who are color blind.”

+1 to cut

<Jade> +1

<slewth> +1

Summary: if we can cut "light gray text on a white background" we should cut it.

Say instead "Websites and apps that avoid text with low contrast are easier to use"

Kartoffel: guy with keyboard - spasms - do we replace him using the keyboard with an iPad? No there was a long clip of him using the keyboard. We can focus on him using the tab key or return key.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Present: Daniel, Laura, shawn, Kevin, Shadi, Jade, Michele, Brent
Found Scribe: Laura
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Found Date: 02 Dec 2022
People with action items: 

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