Silver Task Force & Community Group

04 November 2022


janina, jeanne, JenStrickland, Lauriat, Makoto, sarahhorton, SuzanneTaylor, ToddL, Wilco
jeanne, Shawn
Lauriat, ToddL

Meeting minutes

<Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Scribe_List

<jeanne> AG Email with survey links

jeanne: This week is a survey on Holiday availability (US)

<jeanne> Survey on COnformance Related options

jeanne: Another survey on conformance

jeanne: continuing conformance discussion based on Google Docs

<jeanne> Conformance models discussion (breakout session)

jeanne: breakout sessions will be held

Preview of Tuesday AG WG call

Review asynchronously drafted user needs

Review asynchronously drafted user needs

jeanne: would like to start with the homework that the group did

<Makoto> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zLOSUWkXDkT_uyVVKpuidtOF_LLEhaAXJ8v88oM1Wn4/edit#

Makoto: copied items from functional needs and user needs into doc and worked it into alt text

Makoto: would like to confrm which way should we write user needs?

Makoto: tried to write outcomes, would like to get feedback.

<Lauriat> +1 to the question

Should we include the disability type in the user need?

jeanne: should we include the disability type in the user need?

sarahhorton: has had different thoughts about it.

sarahhorton: talk about user needs in a general way, break that down into different functional needs.

sarahhorton: with severity group, trying to create a matrix

sarahhorton: helps to make it more generic, adaptable to mutliple uses

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to talk about granularity of outcome vs user needs

+1 very helpful

jeanne: thinking about granularity question again

jeanne: Makoto's outcomes were more generic and the user needs were more specific

jeanne: do we want an outcome that is more generic (flexibility)

jeanne: have user needs under it that are associated with the methods

jeanne: if we took outcome page and put user needs on outcome page and linked to methods, it makes it harder to find them

jeanne: could put user needs in WCAG 3 document

Lauriat: working to understand how to write outcomes, wanted to explore going beyond the pure web content of things

Lauriat: different ways that you can expose alternative text may not be support by browsers, for instance

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to ask something along the lines of "People using assistive technology have their AT programmatically access the alternative text to help them perceive/understand images."? or "Assistive technology can programmatically determine alternative text of images"?

sarahhorton: describing user needs for error prevention guidelines

sarahhorton: came up with things that are not currently in WCAG, things and needs that we felt were important that were not addressed

<janina> +1 to what Sarah said!

jeanne: invite anyone else that worked on the homework to discuss their work

jeanne: will go over Suzanne's work

<jeanne> Users who are blind need short fun descriptions of visual content designed to create engagement that will a) also created engagement and b) allow children to talk with their peers about the fun aspects of the content (e.g. describe the monster)

<jeanne> Users with low vision may appreciate simple labels for photographs of items in our world, so they can expand their experience, even if the photograph is not the main point of the content

<Lauriat> In this doc, for those who joined recently

jeanne: let's figure out the key issues that we need to decide

jeanne: we could have the user needs for the different types of images, should we have the different types of flows?

<SuzanneTaylor> +1 to including the flows at least as examples

SuzanneTaylor: if we can keep it simpler and note the realities, the UX people will pick up a11y more readily.

+1 to that

jeanne: would like to give a more worked out example to AGWG

Lauriat: how to take WCAG and gear it towards designers. change the audience for the normative bits

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to note the need for method-agnostic outcomes and the balance of prescriptive and ambiguous guidance

<JenStrickland> +1,000,000 to Lauriat re previous WCAG seemed more for devs and this effort seems geared more to helping designers understand.

JenStrickland: probably want to docuemnt for product people and think about those different roles

<Lauriat> +1

<SuzanneTaylor> +1 to analyzing the roles and assigning to the guidelines, outcomes, etc

JenStrickland: to help them get to the outcomes

<janina> +1 to Suzanne and Shawn; different audiences to WCAG3 components

ToddL: Working with designers, I hear the same thing as others getting into accessibility: how can I understand this document and gear it toward others who have a better understanding?

ToddL: I go over things with designers on guidance like use of color, etc., so big +1 to this

SuzanneTaylor: can volunteer to write a proposal, an example to write the roles.

SuzanneTaylor: can look at the next meeting

<JenStrickland> I'm thinking… trying to figure out what I could do to help. Perhaps I can draft a bit on prod & research, jot some contributions to the designer notes.

sarahhorton: abstract it on another level and talka bout things that happen in design

+1 to activities over roles

sarahhorton: rather than think about specific roles, you have design activity and implementation activity, and many other activities

+1 also to activities

<SuzanneTaylor> +1 to multiple examples

+1 to multiple examples

<JenStrickland> adding on to sarahhorton: strategic and research activities

sarahhorton: suggest we take something other than image alt text and go down a rabbit hole of talking about images alweays

+1, examples showing a range of things would help

sarahhorton: pick some other requirements

+1 to that

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 196 (Thu Oct 27 17:06:44 2022 UTC).


Succeeded: s/rrssagent, make minutes//

Succeeded: s/Lauriat, you wanted to ask about the notions database, given the spreadsheet doesn't link to alt text grouping exercise doc//

All speakers: jeanne, JenStrickland, Lauriat, Makoto, sarahhorton, SuzanneTaylor, ToddL

Active on IRC: janina, jeanne, JenStrickland, Lauriat, Makoto, sarahhorton, SuzanneTaylor, ToddL, Wilco