Meeting minutes
trackbot start meeting
<krisanne_> present
How People with Disabilities Use the Web
Brent: Working in two different approaches. Kevin's led an effort to update personas and other docs. As well working on video scripts to furhter illustrate their needs. Threought eat process, relaized we need a tag line, sign off. Have had to review the docuemnt itslef, hisotyr, purpose, aidience etc
Shadi: This resource predates the WAI Guidelines. It was one long document written with links to relevant technical requirements and techniaues, purpsoefully built into the stories. It was making the case for the WAI Guidelines - both WCAG and UAAG etc. Menat to tie user needs to the requirments.
<shawn> Accessibility Principles https://
<shawn> How People with Disabilities Use the Web https://
Shadi: HPWD continued to evolve, several years ago, we broke the one long doc into separate docs, highlighted the needs of older users, made it more usable. Explained the Principles and created alignement and logical connections to them. The Principles then became a stand alone resource and left the three - Stories, Tool and Techniques, Diverse Abilities.
<shawn> (requirements from 2010 edit to include older people: https://
Shadi: my feeling is that there is still soem uncertainty about what we want to do with the tagline. What is the purpse of the stories? Call toaction for design, raise awareness, illustrate needs, something more. We need to answer the question in order to develop the tagline.
Shawn: Focus has been more on the User Stories and as we review the requirements for recent edits, there is not much there so wanted to apply some fresh thinking on what we want to do. My recollection is that the Stories get more attention that the others.
Kevin: The stories have been the focus since they were dated, opportunity to connect to mobile and other current technology. An opportunity to take a step back and see what was useful and needed. Changing the format was necessary, aligning the style to What New in 2.1, 2.2 We took a brief look at the other docs and there has not been a massive ground shift in those although we did some tweaking.
some based on COGA input.
Shawn: Let's get an updated, shared understanding of what si the purpose, goals of the resources and the videos. Open it up for the question - how do you use it, why do you point people to it, what do you expect from it? The resource all 3.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask followup question to Kris Anne
KrisAnne: I use it as a way to help people understand who their users could be. Developers especially - those who are building the platforms (I am in assessment) they have a different understanding. It led to the creation of the Empathy Lab. Very excited to learn that vieos are coming, since they have found them so helpful.
Shawn: Good to know about stories, what about the other 2?
KrisAnne: I use the Diverse Abilities more than I point people to them. The Principles is great the way it so succicntly presents the ideas I often try to explain.
Brent: Personas are very helpful in getting Developers to thing about different users. We brought a group of them to visit the Tx School for the Blind. We had the kids demonstrate how very experinced skilled screen reader user could not use their platform.
… helped them understand blindness perspectives and then we used the WAI personas to understand other disbilities needs. From there, we pointed them to Tools and techniques which helped them to solve the problems they now understood. The videos will bring this to life by putting a reals person in front of them and illustrate the barriers they face, struggles thy have when the interface is not
designed accessibly.
Shawn: I am interested in the focus on the Stories rather than the other parts. Does anyone want to weigh on the use of the other sections?
Shadi: This is proabably the first WAI Resource I ever used at WAI> I used it to illustrate to my leadership at the place I worked at the time. I learned a lot from the document. There was more of a list of AT. I used it a lot both to help me understand and to create presentations
… Over the years, my direct use of the doc is less and I have more ingrained knowledge but the docs defintely informaed my understanding and approach.
… the essence of them I still use. I can see if it is in a video format I will be using them in trainings to explain and illustrate the many different disbility needs. Not the Stories alone but the inerrealtionship between the parts.
Jade: I agree with the introductory aspect. Understanding how wide an audience you have. Even if all are developers there is a wide range of understanding of accessibility. Trying to bring all to the same level of awareness and that is an important consdieration - that they be quite basic and open to such a broad audience.
Kevin: There is a question of - if we have the videos, do we need the text? You mine a persona for needs - what do I learn about the needs in the context. So teh Barriers section is useful and there becomes a layering effect. One of the challenges is that a persona is meant to bring people into the room when physically its not possible. It's always trying to show that it all comes back to people.
… the standards talk about technology, this brings it to the human need.
Mark: I feel like we have covered most of the aspects. I don't use it that much, maybe I should. People can become more fixzted on legislation and the use of this to humanize the issue and illustrate the human need.
Vicki: Like Shadi I have used them a lot for saying why and how and as we have said the most improtant point is seeing people, barriers, and tools all presented together, it is very useful to convince devs and management.
Michele: I did not know there were there, I had used the Perspective videos but didn't know there were there until I joined EO. I am glad they are being updated and especially about adding videos.
… my goal has been to make sure we don't just learn that someone has a disability but how do you address the barriers. Inspire people to act and have impact.
<kevin> Brainstorm: Making accessibility human
Shadi: Number of goals: One is to make accessibility more human. another is to make accessibility more tangible than abstract. another is turning into the social model and moving away from the medical model. Illustrating that it is the design choices that we make that create the barriers.
… another is just the overall introduction, just beginning to grok the Technical Standards at a high level.
<kevin> Brainstorm: Creating an accessible digital world
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask complication and specifics
Shawn: One of the things about the analytics, I'm pretty sure that the Perspectives vidoe compilation gets many many more views that the individual ones. So we will probably want a compilaations of video for these docuemtns as well.
… several spoke of using these clips in training. We may want to consider clips vs longer compilation with that in mind. Role is to intro the topic and point to the resource for follw up and more info.
Shadi: While I am totally open to the ide of compilation, it is a change from what we originally agreed to. We need to look at that very carefully.
… must think about what needs to be compiled and can consdier with Shawn and bring proposal back to the group.
KrisAnne: Want to be sure not to lose sight of the need for all of the resources indicate that there is still work to be done on the accessibility of the web. While there is a strong urge to show PWD as competent and accomplished, the barriers must remain and the struggle with inaccessible tech must be made clear.
Shawn: Editors, any further questions for the group?
… should we do more discussion on the tagline or wait?
Brent: Off the tail end of what we just considered, can we look at what we want the tag to do?
Video tagline
Brent: One thing I heard is that we want to show the human aspect, a tag that pushes in that direction
<shawn> [ /me oftens says Accessibility is about people, it's not a checklist ... /me thinks we played with that last week? ]
Brent: are there other things that we want the tagline to do?
KrisAnne: A question of marching orders - what can you do?
Sharron: You have a responsibility
Shadi: My thought is shifting away from a call toaction, everyone's responsibility, you can do something, etc. But now that we have looked at the goals, none of them are really actionable. If you look at "Useful/Essentil it ties to the videos. The call to action was not tied to the work. The users stories tagged with "this is how I can be included" or "this is how the web works for me
… in the Tools it would be a series of people saying with a variety of tools
<shawn> [ Shawn also imagines a compliation where they are all visible at the same time and the words are on top of each other... but that would probably be too complex ]
Shadi: follwed by the end plate "for more information..."
Shadi: what do people think about a compilation of testimonials by each participant?
Shawn: I keep going back to the idea of people, accessibility is about people. Not a checklist/standards.
<Vicki> "Accessibility - it's about people"
<shadi> +1 to vicki
<Jade> My cheesy contribution from last week: Accessibility, not just the how, but the who.
Michele: One thing I can up with recently Accessibility = AT + accessible products. Some of what I do and some of what you do. I bring the AT to the table and I need you to bring good design
<shawn> GitHub issue : https://
Shawn: It would be so cool to come up with a phrase, super catchy and succinct. What about: "Accessibility - it's about people."
Shadi: It needs a bit of transisition, it's a bit of a jump.
Shawn: I was actually thinking tha they would still say "works for me" kind of thing and the narrator says the tagline and go here to learn more info.
… the other thing is that we have a short version and a bit of a longer version.
<shawn> short -- Essentiaal for some, useful for all. then on the page: "Web Accessibility Perspectives Videos:
<shawn> Explore the Impact and Benefits for Everyone
<shawn> Web accessibility is essential for people with disabilities and useful for all. Learn about the impact of accessibility and the benefits for everyone in a variety of situations."
Shawn: How do we feel about that - Accessibility: it's about people
Shadi: I love it, it could go viral again. Nice and simple. I like the idea about having the person ending with a "how it works for me" kind of comment and letting the narrator say the tagline
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say
Jade: We may want to have a look around on the web to see where else it might be used. And yeh, I like it.
Brent: Imagining it in the video. To me if the person who is the protagonist say it , it seems more powerful.
<Zakim> kevin, you wanted to say good but not 100% on the specific wording
Kevin: I like it I'm not 100% on the wording. It's connecting the two things we want to connect and making clear we do this so people can use digital products. I think it's very strong.
Michele: It should be on the WAI webiste banners. I can see it in the Stories but may need another tagline for Diverse Abilities and Tools, there is so much more and need a reinforce the idea that there is so much more. So maybe one very personal to illustrate the user stories and another for the other two resources.
Shadi: Brent I agree with you that having the speaker say something in the camera about how it works for me and then the narrator builds on and make it more general that it is for all people.
Shawn: +1 If the person says "It's about me" and then the narrator takes and makes it universal.
Sharron: +1
Shawn: The endplate can have the pictures of all of them with the tagline to demonstrate that there is more than one person. (also, we do that with the multiple icons in the eval videos)
<kevin> +1
Brent: So in the Tools and Diverse Abilities can have a different sub-tagline and then have the same "Accessibility: It's About People"
Shadi: Yes in the ones that show different testimonials, we can tie it with a bridge to the tagline. In the stories just one person and in the others, a set of people
<Brent> I am at a +1 for this approach and the use of "Accessibility, it's about People.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say multipel photos like images and to mention technique and to say eval video
Shawn: If we show multiple people at the end and they're all saying the same thing at the same time. May be too complex but can keep in mind as a possibility.
<Jade> +1
<shadi> +1
<krisanne_> +1
<MarkPalmer> +1
Shawn: Straw proposal: For the Stories, the protagonist says something along the lines of "how it works for me", end plate has more info, narrator tagline is "Accessibility: It's About People"
<shawn> +1
<Brent> +3
<krisanne_> +1
<kevin> +1 except the multiple people saying the same things at the end
Kevin: I don't support the idea of multiple people saying the same thing - it steps over the line of cheesy.
Shawn: The multiple might be saying "It's about me" not the tagline.
Shadi: So this is not a final decision, is that right? Only an idea for the freindly editor to work on and bring back to the group?
Shawn: yes
Video Survey
Brent: We have been working on the 5 scripts for Diverse Abilities and 4 scripts of Tools. There have been changes and we want you to review all 9 of the scripts. It is a Monkey review, last chance to raise big issues, copy editing, typos etc. Survey will close on Friday Oct 21.
… will NOT be extended.
… doesn't need to be completed in one setting.
… any questions?
… we have been getting great feedback, thansk for that.
Accessibility Updates from Community
<shawn> me not sure if better link than https://
<shawn> Sharron: @@ ... lots of disability orgs involved. Good example of nothing about us without us.
Kevin: GCHQ our equivalent of NSA etc and some of the accessibility work there is amazing. Trying to increase awarenss of accessibility specialists and roles across agencies in government. Work in the government digital service have advocated for accessibility specifists to be added to the DDAT framework. The goal is to get better job descriptions out there an encourage teams to add across
departments.
Jade: I saw that when it came out and it was interesting to align it with our work - you could have come to us first.
<kevin> https://
Shadi: Standardiztion work has finally started and getting into gear. A standard ??? that includes WCAG needs to be revised. In that mandate the completion deadline is september 2025 but the enforcement date is June 2025. So likely to see more discussion on how to interpret WCAG within the context.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say new resource heavily points to EOWG resources
Shawn: Carie Fisher is writing a resource published in the Google Dev resources. Heavily references and links to WAI resources and web site. Great to see such a positive use of our resources.
Wrap
Brent: Please make time for the video script reviews and survey
KrisAnne: From the COGA meeting - they have a research report and would like to offer a survey to let them know if you find the report useful.
<shawn> THANKS to Sharron scribe!
Brent: I'll send a link, the items iwll be on work for this week. thanks all, see you later.