12 September 2022


bkardell_, boaz, eparsons, jvanulde, PeterR, rego, satakagi, zcorpan

Meeting minutes

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Hi all, difficulties getting zoom started for all, please stand by...

<jvanulde> PeterR: Welcome to Vancouver

<jvanulde> PeterR: Presenting video introducing community group...

<jvanulde> PeterR: Opens floor to questions...

zcorpan: work on web maps research summary

zcorpan: research done for NRCan

zcorpan: httparchive used by browser implementers

zcorpan: static analysis, httparchive 7.5M pages crawled monthly. Data on html,css, js on every page.

zcorpan: no deep pages, only front pages

zcorpan: how many use, how they use maps: 16% of all pages use maps. Video for example is on 4%, Youtube 10%, still less than maps

zcorpan: 22% of maps use features / locations

zcorpan: range between simple and complex use cases

zcorpan: survey of web devs who use maps, make web maps. Promoted widely on Web.

zcorpan: received 78 responses.

zcorpan: key finding is that implementing interactions is the most difficult aspect.

zcorpan: no beginner friendly solutions

zcorpan: map bounds

zcorpan: people want to make maps accessible, but don't have the tools or don't know of them to do so

zcorpan: performance was covered, webgl power use

zcorpan: pan / zoom interactions, ability to define css for maps

zcorpan: from our expert interviews; key finding capability for better accessibility needs more work

zcorpan: switch projections on the fly needed

zcorpan: difficult to integrate maps into larger applications.

zcorpan: takeaways are perf, a11y

zcorpan: also interviewed browser implementers. <model> element is for viewing 3d models on a smaller scale / AR

zcorpan: interactive elements / attributes. Camera, without giving the page access to private info.

zcorpan: overlap of functionality with web maps, interaction may be different.

zcorpan: takeaway from browser implementers: want buy-in from mapping frameworks.

zcorpan: potential solutions: 3 starting points

zcorpan: start with mapml proposal, iterate

zcorpan: start w model element

zcorpan: 3 iterative approach. Bocoup recommends iterative approach

zcorpan: roadmap recommendation, goals and milestones.

zcorpan: a11y, perf, privacy

zcorpan: engage key stakeholders

zcorpan: have started doing some of the research. close gaps in Web map frameworks

zcorpan: polyfill. Open to working with Igalia to implement in browser engines

zcorpan: update mdn documentation

zcorpan: roadmap in more detail - need a link for the record here

zcorpan: reviews detailed road map.

zcorpan: roadmap

bkardell_: astounding amount of web maps; everybody knows that you rarely see the map on a homepage, usually assume it's buried in a site

bkardell_: possible to assume it's even higher than 16%

bkardell_: can't think of anything that is as widely useful. Hope that we can find people interested in solving these problems.

bkardell_: pan/zoom is so valuable in many contexts, not just maps.

bkardell_: also, my comment is that when you present something like this, it seems like something that's not going to get done.

bkardell_: other small things by comparison take a long time. The thing that I like about the iterative approach is that we may be able to find value and deliver it as we go.

zcorpan: very good point; for each capability that we have we might be able to deliver incrementally. Even if that's all we do it will be worth the effort.

bkardell_: html5 took many years, but we got pieces of it along the way. This plan is really good, i agree with it.

eparsons: To be completely honest, Google doesn't have a view on this topic specifically

eparsons: need to reframe what the problem is

eparsons: put a map on a web page, simple store finder

eparsons: Google sees this as a solved problem.

eparsons: so I think we need to re-state the problem.

eparsons: The future of the map is not a map, necessarily. It's about other ways of providing geospatial information.
… prob. not something that looks solely like a cartographic map.
… maps online at the moment aren't good citizens of the web.
… takes a person with geographical training to make them
… from pov of an autonomous agent, what they see in the JavaScipt is invisible i.e. nothing
… not machine-interpretable
… from my perspective, that's the problem that we need to solve
… how do we describe the location semantics in an html web page and make it available to the autonomous agent
… in other words, what is actually displayed on the map.
… should not fall into the trap, that we often do in our industry, of asking the question of the wrong people.
… by talking to GIS people, you'll get a bias in the answer.
… black hole of geospatial content
… putting geospatial on the Web; OGC has struggled with this fundamental problem: Web service standards are opaque to the rest of the internet.
… unless you already understand these services, it's impossible to understand the content
… W3C / OGC worked together to produce SDW Best Practices document, to make geo more webby.
… this has morphed into Cloud native geo content
… vector tile date in cloud native approach.
… from server POV, metadata should be easier to interpret
… need a simple tagging for maps, this is the fundamental problem.
… will help accessibility, valuable geospatial information is largely invisible in its native form

bkardell_: what are you going to render?

eparson: relative geographical terms are important

boaz: alt text for maps

boaz: shares web page with leaflet map

boaz: descriptions of features in "alt text" alternate page

boaz: maps are visualizations

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Regarding the map of Denver... we know it's Denver from the coordinates

<jvanulde_> PeterR: The BBOX coordinates are not available to indexing engines

<jvanulde_> edparsons: we are looking at this at our own level of abstraction, where is Denver? We can't rely simply on coordinates

eparsons: a sighted person can see that the map is a map of Denver, but how is that information exposed to machines?

zcorpan: a11y is a top priority, but it's not the only problem. For example, performance was something that people brought up, as not sufficient for maps.

zcorpan: scrolling is a fundamental feature of how browsers work. panning and zooming widget in the browser is needed.

<jvanulde_> PeterR: I want highlight the work that has been done at a technical level in the community group

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Use Cases and Requirements for Standardizing Web Map document was developed

<jvanulde_> PeterR: A matrix of capabilities was developed, allowing us to show that what has been implemented

<jvanulde_> PeterR: User documentation ongoing including interactive examples for the elements

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Documentation aimed at web developers

<jvanulde_> PeterR: GeoJSON API implementation in progress

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Chrome and Edge extension is available in developer mode

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Extension supports localization according the browser settings

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Extension supports accessibility preferences

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Exploring using links to navigate e.g. pan/zoom

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Geospatial linking to create a web of maps

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Improvements to the custom projections API

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Feature captions for accessibility, tab order is respected, you can navigate into the features in the map by tabbing

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Feature captions presented as a tooltip in the map, features are sorted by distance ascending from centre of the map

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Selecting the feature and hitting enter will provide feature properties in a popup on the map

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Accessible layer control, worked to make it more accessible, keyboard navigable and screen reader compatible

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Feature index, can be enabled in the page, a keyboard navigation technique, allows one to drill down into features

<jvanulde_> PeterR: It's really important to get your organization to join our Community Group

<jvanulde_> PeterR: Closing the meeting, join us on Thursday!

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 192 (Tue Jun 28 16:55:30 2022 UTC).


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Maybe present: eparson