– DRAFT –
Accessibility Supported Subgroup Meeting - Week 6

Documentation Check-in "Accessibility supported in WCAG 2"

Makoto: I am presenting to AGWG in a couple hours, so hope for some feedback
… last week Bruce and Laura shared use cases.
… ask Poornima to share about her experience with Browsers and AT support

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XxzwsgWZSDh2EDqTag-nYfrqAT3b6Glpu8DGbVpTd9M/edit#heading=h.kaqrkuoj33v8

It may become impossible to make modern web page with all the available AT and wide variety of web browsers.
… when when a customer has a very specific combination they want to tune webpage for , can lead to AT compatibility problems

Poornima: One example is SVG which vary in support with AT, please see link in doc

Another example is The combination of JAWS and Firefox read field-sets differently than the combination of JAWS and Chrome. These also vary from how NVDA reads field sets with these browsers.
… Please see link in doc

It is not feasible to test with the full breadth of web browsers , let alone have code account for different behavior.

We used WebAIM screen reader survey to inform our focus...
… but the numbers/popular reported by WebAIM as not the same as returned by browser sniffing; JAWS and NVDA seem to have similar usage.

Test with with just four combinations of a browser+SR is not enough , but that is already a lot of work and there will be differences

Poornima: One suggestion I have is to include model Accessible Statements

I would also like to see strategies and collaboration on matrix of UA and AT

Makoto: Was this mostly Holland America experience?

Poornima: Not just work because I did have some conversations with others, so this reflects more than my own experience with my employeer.

Makoto: AWK did add his section of Adobe and PDF experience...
… AWK not here. But please read and add comment bubbles for questions if you have any concerns.

Makoto: Last week we discussed the Unapproved Prototype of Accessibility Support and I added a use case for that.

Shadi did not complete this database and has not been vetted or endorsed by AGWG -- but I really like the direction this was going in.
… In particular I want to highlight ARIA and other techniques and tries to show at a glance how widely supported are various documented techicques.

https://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/

Database shows "pie chart" and numeric like 1/7 (one green slice, rest of pie orange) or 9/9 (solid green circle)
… database links to techniques -- but *also* testcases

Makoto: One of recommendations I would like to take up to AGWG is continue this work.
… conversation with Shadi was several years ago. Even back then was available in other languages.
… Shadi said that AGWG was not enthusiastic, but I do not know why.
… Don't know what working will say.
… in particular, I feel this approach works well for other languages.
… seems like it has good potential

ack

Poornima: This would help with testing and getting accessibility support snap shot
… seems like a worth while initiative
… I would like see this developed too.

bruce_bailey: I suggest we invite Wilco to brief this sub group on current ACT TF actives. I know there are other databases.

Rachael: I like this and it fits to one of the challenges to AGWG to say how much documentation should be provided

Makoto: I was chair on the same activity in Japan documenting text cases and files and documenting behavior of Japanese UA and maintaining database...
… this approach needs huge commitment of time

Makoto: I will write up some note on that for next week which I will share.

"Pros and Cons" discussion

Makoto: As we discussed at the end of the call last week we wanted to look at pro/con of AS
… I see several people have filled.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XxzwsgWZSDh2EDqTag-nYfrqAT3b6Glpu8DGbVpTd9M/edit#heading=h.heym9casb735

bruce_bailey: I was disappointed not to come away with clarity...
… it is no good to have code which works only in theory and not in practice -- but having certainty is impossible.

Poornima: Idea of AS is of benefit but huge effort and even with best efforts , there will almost certainly be gaps.

Makoto: AS facilitates localization (different languages) and being responsive to the UA most in use by region...
… level of effort for test files and human resources -- and on-going maintenance.

Makoto: Japan expected to adopt wcag 2.2 in near future and 3.0 once it becomes iso standard.
… Japan has screen reader which is very popular in our country but not much used outside of Japan.

Makoto: I would like to merge tables. Any concerns with that?

I will start with my own, since it was longer, and add others comments into my own.

Please look for that next week.

<Poornima> +1 for Innovative solutions

bruce_bailey: I want to hightligh Racheal comment about "allows space for innovative solutions". We have concept like that under 508...

Subgroup Presentation at AGWG today

bruce_bailey: Equivalent Facilitation provides path for developer to take risk -- Original 508 Standards requiring buttons/keys versus Apple VoiceOver on iOS for touchscreen phone and tables.

Documentation Check-in "Accessibility supported in WCAG 2"

Subgroup Presentation at AGWG today

Makoto: As mentioned at top of the call, I will be presenting to AG WG at 11:00 EST.
… A little bit more formal this time, so I want to share slides and ask for you feed back
… see historical notes from GV in particular
… I will talk about Japan use case
… I will share keep / not keep - pros and cons
… i will be clear to group that this is work in progress

<Makoto> presentation slides https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Oo7A6B44guvYaBkaFSBVaeSW1qCAglReaYqxSSsksNw/edit?usp=sharing

Makoto: and that our sub group has not has finalized all of this

Poornima comments on a couple slides

<Makoto> ack?

<Makoto> regrets;AWK