11:49:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-supported
11:49:25 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/08/23-wcag3-supported-irc
11:49:38 <Makoto> zakim, start meeting
11:49:38 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:49:39 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Makoto
11:50:09 <Makoto> meeting:Accessibility Supported Subgroup Meeting - Week 6
11:50:32 <Makoto> rrsagent, make logs world
11:51:07 <Makoto> Agenda+ Documentation Check-in "Accessibility supported in WCAG 2"
11:51:23 <Makoto> Agenda+ "Pros and Cons" discussion
11:51:47 <Makoto> Agenda+ Subgroup Presentation at AGWG today
12:00:50 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #wcag3-supported
12:01:42 <bruce_bailey> scribe: bruce_bailey
12:02:36 <bruce_bailey> present+
12:04:06 <Makoto> present+
12:04:12 <Poornima> Poornima has joined #wcag3-supported
12:04:17 <Poornima> present+
12:04:22 <Rachael> present+
12:04:41 <Makoto> agenda?
12:05:50 <Makoto> zakim, take up item 1
12:05:50 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Documentation Check-in "Accessibility supported in WCAG 2" -- taken up [from Makoto]
12:05:58 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I am presenting to AGWG in a couple hours, so hope for some feedback
12:06:21 <bruce_bailey> ...last week Bruce and Laura shared use cases.
12:07:22 <bruce_bailey> ...ask Poornima to share about her experience with Browsers and AT support
12:07:45 <bruce_bailey> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XxzwsgWZSDh2EDqTag-nYfrqAT3b6Glpu8DGbVpTd9M/edit#heading=h.kaqrkuoj33v8
12:08:29 <bruce_bailey> It may become impossible to make modern web page with all the available AT and wide variety of web browsers.
12:10:01 <bruce_bailey> ... when when a customer has a very specific combination they want to tune webpage for , can lead to AT compatibility problems
12:10:50 <bruce_bailey> Poornima: One example is SVG which vary in support with AT, please see link in doc
12:11:20 <bruce_bailey> Another example is The combination of JAWS and Firefox read field-sets differently than the combination of JAWS and Chrome. These also vary from how NVDA reads field sets with these browsers.
12:11:37 <bruce_bailey> ... Please see link in doc
12:12:24 <bruce_bailey> It is not feasible to test with the full breadth of web browsers , let alone have code account for different behavior.
12:12:53 <bruce_bailey> We used WebAIM screen reader survey to inform our focus...
12:13:57 <bruce_bailey> ... but the numbers/popular reported by WebAIM as not the same as returned by browser sniffing; JAWS and NVDA seem to have similar usage.
12:14:41 <bruce_bailey> Test with with just four combinations of a browser+SR is not enough , but that is already a lot of work and there will be differences
12:15:26 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  One suggestion I have is to include model Accessible Statements
12:16:09 <bruce_bailey> I would also like to see strategies and collaboration on matrix of UA and AT
12:16:27 <bruce_bailey> Makoto: Was this mostly Holland America experience?
12:17:15 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  Not just work because I did have some conversations with others, so this reflects more than my own experience with my employeer.
12:18:12 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  AWK did add his section of Adobe and PDF experience...
12:18:53 <bruce_bailey> ... AWK not here.  But please read and add comment bubbles for questions if you have any concerns.
12:19:53 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Last week we discussed the Unapproved Prototype of Accessibility Support and I added a use case for that.
12:20:49 <bruce_bailey> Shadi did not complete before leaving W3C and has not been vetted or endorsed by AGWG -- but I really like the direction this was going in.
12:22:05 <bruce_bailey> ... In particular I want to highlight ARIA and other techniques and tries to show at a glance how widely supported are various documented techicques.
12:22:43 <bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/
12:22:54 <bruce_bailey> q+ to ask about test files
12:23:42 <bruce_bailey> q-
12:24:42 <bruce_bailey> Database shows "pie chart" and numeric like 1/7 (one green slice, rest of pie orange) or 9/9 (solid green circle)
12:25:21 <bruce_bailey> ... database links to techniques -- but *also* testcases
12:26:40 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  One of recommendations I would like to take up to AGWG is continue this work.
12:26:50 <Poornima> q+
12:27:45 <bruce_bailey> ... conversation with Shadi was several years ago.   Even back then was available in other languages.
12:28:36 <bruce_bailey> ... Shadi said that AGWG was not enthusiastic, but I do not know why.
12:28:43 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:29:09 <bruce_bailey> ... Don't know what working will say.
12:29:43 <Rachael> Q+
12:29:53 <bruce_bailey> ... in particular, I feel this approach works well for other languages.
12:30:24 <bruce_bailey> ... seems like it has good potential
12:30:26 <bruce_bailey> ack
12:30:27 <Makoto> ack Poornima
12:31:27 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  This would help with testing and getting accessibility support snap shot
12:31:42 <bruce_bailey> ... seems like a worth while initiative
12:32:17 <bruce_bailey> ... I would like see this developed too.
12:32:23 <Makoto> ack bruce
12:34:02 <Makoto> ack Rachael
12:34:12 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey:  I suggest we invite Wilco to brief this sub group on current ACT TF actives.  I know there are other databases.
12:34:56 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  I like this and it fits to one of the challenges to AGWG to say how much documentation should be provided
12:35:48 <bruce_bailey> Makoto: I was chair on activity documenting text cases and files and documenting behavior of Japanese UA and maintaining database...
12:36:07 <bruce_bailey> ... this approach needs huge commitment of time
12:36:38 <Makoto> q?
12:36:40 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I will write up some note on that for next week which I will share.
12:37:06 <Makoto> zakim, take up item 2
12:37:06 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- "Pros and Cons" discussion -- taken up [from Makoto]
12:38:11 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  As we discussed at the end of the call last week we wanted to look at pro/con of AS
12:38:26 <bruce_bailey> ... I see several people have filled.
12:39:56 <bruce_bailey> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XxzwsgWZSDh2EDqTag-nYfrqAT3b6Glpu8DGbVpTd9M/edit#heading=h.heym9casb735
12:40:17 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey:  I was disappointed not to come away with clarity...
12:41:11 <bruce_bailey> ... it is no good to have code which works only in theory and not in practice -- but having certainty is impossible.
12:42:34 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  Idea of AS is of benefit but huge effort and even with best efforts , there will almost certainly be gaps.
12:43:59 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  AS facilitates localization (different languages) and being responsive to the UA most in use by region...
12:44:45 <bruce_bailey> ... level of effort for test files and human resources -- and on-going maintenance.
12:45:14 <bruce_bailey> rrsagent, make minutes
12:45:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/23-wcag3-supported-minutes.html bruce_bailey
12:45:56 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Japan expected to adopt wcag 2.2 in near future and 3.0 once it becomes iso standard.
12:46:57 <bruce_bailey> ... Japan has screen reader which is very popular in our country but not much used outside of Japan.
12:47:23 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I would like to merge tables.  Any concerns with that?
12:48:13 <bruce_bailey> I will start with my own, since it was longer, and add others comments into my own.
12:48:26 <bruce_bailey> Please look for that next week.
12:48:33 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:48:48 <Makoto> ack bruce
12:50:24 <Poornima> +1 for Innovative solutions
12:51:01 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey: I want to hightligh Racheal comment about "allows space for innovative solutions".  We have concept like that under 508...
12:51:04 <Makoto> zakim, take up item 3
12:51:04 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Subgroup Presentation at AGWG today -- taken up [from Makoto]
12:52:21 <bruce_bailey> ... Equivalent Facilitation provides path for developer to take risk -- Original 508 Standards requiring buttons/keys versus Apple VoiceOver on iOS for touchscreen phone and tables.
12:52:36 <bruce_bailey> zakim, next item
12:52:36 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Documentation Check-in "Accessibility supported in WCAG 2" -- taken up [from Makoto]
12:52:46 <bruce_bailey> zakim, next item
12:52:46 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, bruce_bailey
12:52:50 <bruce_bailey> zakim, next item
12:52:50 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, bruce_bailey
12:53:00 <bruce_bailey> zakim, take up next item
12:53:00 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, bruce_bailey
12:53:12 <bruce_bailey> zakim, take up item 3
12:53:12 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Subgroup Presentation at AGWG today -- taken up [from Makoto]
12:53:53 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  As mentioned at top of the call, I will be presenting to AG WG at 11:00 EST.
12:54:17 <bruce_bailey> ... A little bit more formal this time, so I want to share slides and ask for you feed back
12:54:20 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:54:40 <bruce_bailey> .... see historical notes from GV in particular
12:55:00 <bruce_bailey> .... I will talk about Japan use case
12:55:25 <bruce_bailey> ... I will share keep / not keep - pros and cons
12:55:27 <Poornima> q+
12:55:43 <Makoto> ack bruce
12:55:59 <bruce_bailey> ... i will be clear to group that this is work in progress
12:56:14 <Makoto> presentation slides https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Oo7A6B44guvYaBkaFSBVaeSW1qCAglReaYqxSSsksNw/edit?usp=sharing
12:56:28 <bruce_bailey> ... and that our sub group has not has finalized all of this
12:56:42 <Makoto> ack Poornima
12:57:11 <bruce_bailey> Poornima comments on a couple slides
12:59:51 <Makoto> ack?
12:59:57 <Makoto> q?
13:01:21 <bruce_bailey> zakim, end meeting
13:01:21 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been bruce_bailey, Makoto, Poornima, Rachael
13:01:23 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:01:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/23-wcag3-supported-minutes.html Zakim
13:01:26 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, bruce_bailey; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
13:01:30 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag3-supported
13:27:39 <Makoto> s/before leaving W3C/this database
13:30:34 <Makoto> s/chair on activity/chair on the same activity in Japan
13:33:31 <Makoto> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:33:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/23-wcag3-supported-minutes.html Makoto
13:33:55 <Makoto> regrets;AWK
13:34:04 <Makoto> regrets:AWK
13:34:16 <Makoto> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:34:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/23-wcag3-supported-minutes.html Makoto
14:55:26 <Makoto> RRSAgent, please part
14:55:26 <RRSAgent> I see no action items