Accessibility Supported Subgroup Meeting - Week 6

23 August 2022


bruce_bailey, Makoto, Poornima, Rachael

Meeting minutes

Documentation Check-in "Accessibility supported in WCAG 2"

Makoto: I am presenting to AGWG in a couple hours, so hope for some feedback
… last week Bruce and Laura shared use cases.
… ask Poornima to share about her experience with Browsers and AT support


It may become impossible to make modern web page with all the available AT and wide variety of web browsers.
… when when a customer has a very specific combination they want to tune webpage for , can lead to AT compatibility problems

Poornima: One example is SVG which vary in support with AT, please see link in doc

Another example is The combination of JAWS and Firefox read field-sets differently than the combination of JAWS and Chrome. These also vary from how NVDA reads field sets with these browsers.
… Please see link in doc

It is not feasible to test with the full breadth of web browsers , let alone have code account for different behavior.

We used WebAIM screen reader survey to inform our focus...
… but the numbers/popular reported by WebAIM as not the same as returned by browser sniffing; JAWS and NVDA seem to have similar usage.

Test with with just four combinations of a browser+SR is not enough , but that is already a lot of work and there will be differences

Poornima: One suggestion I have is to include model Accessible Statements

I would also like to see strategies and collaboration on matrix of UA and AT

Makoto: Was this mostly Holland America experience?

Poornima: Not just work because I did have some conversations with others, so this reflects more than my own experience with my employeer.

Makoto: AWK did add his section of Adobe and PDF experience...
… AWK not here. But please read and add comment bubbles for questions if you have any concerns.

Makoto: Last week we discussed the Unapproved Prototype of Accessibility Support and I added a use case for that.

Shadi did not complete this database and has not been vetted or endorsed by AGWG -- but I really like the direction this was going in.
… In particular I want to highlight ARIA and other techniques and tries to show at a glance how widely supported are various documented techicques.


Database shows "pie chart" and numeric like 1/7 (one green slice, rest of pie orange) or 9/9 (solid green circle)
… database links to techniques -- but *also* testcases

Makoto: One of recommendations I would like to take up to AGWG is continue this work.
… conversation with Shadi was several years ago. Even back then was available in other languages.
… Shadi said that AGWG was not enthusiastic, but I do not know why.
… Don't know what working will say.
… in particular, I feel this approach works well for other languages.
… seems like it has good potential


Poornima: This would help with testing and getting accessibility support snap shot
… seems like a worth while initiative
… I would like see this developed too.

bruce_bailey: I suggest we invite Wilco to brief this sub group on current ACT TF actives. I know there are other databases.

Rachael: I like this and it fits to one of the challenges to AGWG to say how much documentation should be provided

Makoto: I was chair on the same activity in Japan documenting text cases and files and documenting behavior of Japanese UA and maintaining database...
… this approach needs huge commitment of time

Makoto: I will write up some note on that for next week which I will share.

"Pros and Cons" discussion

Makoto: As we discussed at the end of the call last week we wanted to look at pro/con of AS
… I see several people have filled.


bruce_bailey: I was disappointed not to come away with clarity...
… it is no good to have code which works only in theory and not in practice -- but having certainty is impossible.

Poornima: Idea of AS is of benefit but huge effort and even with best efforts , there will almost certainly be gaps.

Makoto: AS facilitates localization (different languages) and being responsive to the UA most in use by region...
… level of effort for test files and human resources -- and on-going maintenance.

Makoto: Japan expected to adopt wcag 2.2 in near future and 3.0 once it becomes iso standard.
… Japan has screen reader which is very popular in our country but not much used outside of Japan.

Makoto: I would like to merge tables. Any concerns with that?

I will start with my own, since it was longer, and add others comments into my own.

Please look for that next week.

<Poornima> +1 for Innovative solutions

bruce_bailey: I want to hightligh Racheal comment about "allows space for innovative solutions". We have concept like that under 508...

Subgroup Presentation at AGWG today

bruce_bailey: Equivalent Facilitation provides path for developer to take risk -- Original 508 Standards requiring buttons/keys versus Apple VoiceOver on iOS for touchscreen phone and tables.

Documentation Check-in "Accessibility supported in WCAG 2"

Subgroup Presentation at AGWG today

Makoto: As mentioned at top of the call, I will be presenting to AG WG at 11:00 EST.
… A little bit more formal this time, so I want to share slides and ask for you feed back
… see historical notes from GV in particular
… I will talk about Japan use case
… I will share keep / not keep - pros and cons
… i will be clear to group that this is work in progress

<Makoto> presentation slides https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Oo7A6B44guvYaBkaFSBVaeSW1qCAglReaYqxSSsksNw/edit?usp=sharing

Makoto: and that our sub group has not has finalized all of this

Poornima comments on a couple slides

<Makoto> ack?

<Makoto> regrets;AWK

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 192 (Tue Jun 28 16:55:30 2022 UTC).


Succeeded: s/before leaving W3C/this database

Succeeded: s/chair on activity/chair on the same activity in Japan